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Techno2000
Guest
Also, all the Gods of the Hindu Religion must be incorporated too, surely they are Manifestation to.
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Techno2000
Guest
What criteria does the Baha’i religion use to determine what is a true Manifestation of God
and worthy to be incorporated in their faith and which is not, and is this criteria infallible ?
and worthy to be incorporated in their faith and which is not, and is this criteria infallible ?
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eddie_too
Guest
based primarily on what people on here who claim to be bahai, the primary reason to believe hasayn ali is important, different from the rest of us and a “manifestation” of god(?) is that he said he was.
he brings no new teachings from God. he offers nothing special to God. he just says over and over, I am very important and it is very important to you that you believe I am very important.
somehow, such a perspective seems very trivial and lacking in substance.
I guess it is fair to conclude that hasayn ali was not a saint because his teachings are so trivial as to be inconsequential to most human beings and the transmission of trivialities is not particularly the realm of holy people (saints).
if there had never been a bab or a husayn ali, can anyone imagine the consequences to the world?
please feel free to speculate as to possible consequences for all of us if husayn ali had never declared himself very, very special, far more special than anyone else alive at the time, or alive in the prior 1,800 years, or who will live in the next thousand years.
yeah, he declared himself the most special person in the world. yet, here we all are trying to figure out why we should think him special and why he thought himself special. I pretty well know why his followers think him special. they believe him when he says over and over and over, I am soooo special.
he brings no new teachings from God. he offers nothing special to God. he just says over and over, I am very important and it is very important to you that you believe I am very important.
somehow, such a perspective seems very trivial and lacking in substance.
I guess it is fair to conclude that hasayn ali was not a saint because his teachings are so trivial as to be inconsequential to most human beings and the transmission of trivialities is not particularly the realm of holy people (saints).
if there had never been a bab or a husayn ali, can anyone imagine the consequences to the world?
please feel free to speculate as to possible consequences for all of us if husayn ali had never declared himself very, very special, far more special than anyone else alive at the time, or alive in the prior 1,800 years, or who will live in the next thousand years.
yeah, he declared himself the most special person in the world. yet, here we all are trying to figure out why we should think him special and why he thought himself special. I pretty well know why his followers think him special. they believe him when he says over and over and over, I am soooo special.
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Techno2000
Guest
The Baha’i people will say that it is the words transmitted to him by God that is most important, not the man himself, so we need to scrutinize these words to discern whether they come from our God or the Devil masquerading as God.
reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/HW/hw-155.html
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Nick44
Guest
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arthra
Guest
Baha’is don’t observe Christmas among themselves… If a family member is Christian we can celebrate with them… this would be true of other religions as well. Our gift exchange season is called Ayyam-i-Ha…which happens in late February…
We have our own calendar as well which begins around the vernal equinox…March 21st called Naw-Ruz.
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arthra
Guest
Manifestations
For those confused about the concept of the Manifestation of God I recommend read an article by Julio Savi at
bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html
We only know about the Manifestations of God mentioned in the Baha’i Writings but acknowledge there have been Manifestations before our history records and there will be Manifestations in the future.
New Teaachings:
Someone asked above new the teachings of Baha’u’llah …
Actually Baha’u’llah has brought quite a few new teachings…that we can follow…among them are
Equality of men and women;
Reducing the extremes of wealth and poverty
establishing a representative world parliament and an internatuional court of arbitration …this He revealed around 1868…in Letters to reigning monarchs…
For Baha’is daily life…
Baha’u’llah forbade the use of alcohol as a beverage… Baha’is have certain daily obligatory prayers… Gambling is forbidden…
Political partisanship is forbidden so Baha’is vote non-partisan or independent of party.
Baha’is cannot hold partisan offices.
Baha’is seek the approval of parents when marrying. Baha’is are monogamist.
Sexual relations outside marriage are forbidden.
Jihad or Holy War is forbidden… Baha’is seek a non-combatant role is drafted for military service…
That’ll probably do for now.
For those confused about the concept of the Manifestation of God I recommend read an article by Julio Savi at
bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html
We only know about the Manifestations of God mentioned in the Baha’i Writings but acknowledge there have been Manifestations before our history records and there will be Manifestations in the future.
New Teaachings:
Someone asked above new the teachings of Baha’u’llah …
Actually Baha’u’llah has brought quite a few new teachings…that we can follow…among them are
Equality of men and women;
Reducing the extremes of wealth and poverty
establishing a representative world parliament and an internatuional court of arbitration …this He revealed around 1868…in Letters to reigning monarchs…
For Baha’is daily life…
Baha’u’llah forbade the use of alcohol as a beverage… Baha’is have certain daily obligatory prayers… Gambling is forbidden…
Political partisanship is forbidden so Baha’is vote non-partisan or independent of party.
Baha’is cannot hold partisan offices.
Baha’is seek the approval of parents when marrying. Baha’is are monogamist.
Sexual relations outside marriage are forbidden.
Jihad or Holy War is forbidden… Baha’is seek a non-combatant role is drafted for military service…
That’ll probably do for now.
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Techno2000
Guest
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.Manifestations
For those confused about the concept of the Manifestation of God I recommend read an article by Julio Savi at
bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html
We only know about the Manifestations of God mentioned in the Baha’i Writings but acknowledge there have been Manifestations before our history records and there will be Manifestations in the future.
New Teaachings:
Someone asked above new the teachings of Baha’u’llah …
Actually Baha’u’llah has brought quite a few new teachings…that we can follow…among them are
Equality of men and women;
Reducing the extremes of wealth and poverty
establishing a representative world parliament and an internatuional court of arbitration …this He revealed around 1868…in Letters to reigning monarchs…
For Baha’is daily life…
Baha’u’llah forbade the use of alcohol as a beverage… Baha’is have certain daily obligatory prayers… Gambling is forbidden…
Political partisanship is forbidden so Baha’is vote non-partisan or independent of party.
Baha’is cannot hold partisan offices.
Baha’is seek the approval of parents when marrying. Baha’is are monogamist.
Sexual relations outside marriage are forbidden.
Jihad or Holy War is forbidden… Baha’is seek a non-combatant role is drafted for military service…
That’ll probably do for now.
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Techno2000
Guest
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
The one thing that strikes me is that Bahai make it impossible to actually govern themselves. So Hypothetically if Bahai managed to rule the world (as is the bahai ambition it seems) you would either have to rely on nonbelievers to do what you consider evil or bad or be easily overthrown.Manifestations
For those confused about the concept of the Manifestation of God I recommend read an article by Julio Savi at
bahai-library.com/books/quest/quest.06.html
We only know about the Manifestations of God mentioned in the Baha’i Writings but acknowledge there have been Manifestations before our history records and there will be Manifestations in the future.
New Teaachings:
Someone asked above new the teachings of Baha’u’llah …
Actually Baha’u’llah has brought quite a few new teachings…that we can follow…among them are
Equality of men and women;
Reducing the extremes of wealth and poverty
establishing a representative world parliament and an internatuional court of arbitration …this He revealed around 1868…in Letters to reigning monarchs…
For Baha’is daily life…
Baha’u’llah forbade the use of alcohol as a beverage… Baha’is have certain daily obligatory prayers… Gambling is forbidden…
Political partisanship is forbidden so Baha’is vote non-partisan or independent of party.
Baha’is cannot hold partisan offices.
Baha’is seek the approval of parents when marrying. Baha’is are monogamist.
Sexual relations outside marriage are forbidden.
Jihad or Holy War is forbidden… Baha’is seek a non-combatant role is drafted for military service…
That’ll probably do for now.
Also define equality of Men and women. Are we talking equality as in egalitarian equality or something which actually allows gender norms.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Post #272. Any answers to the question in red?
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Nick44
Guest
That admonition is not unique to the NT:
Deuteronomy 4:2–
“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.”
Baha’u’llah also comments on the NT passages:
“Beside this passage, there is yet another verse in the Gospel wherein He saith: “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but My words shall not pass away.” Thus it is that the adherents of Jesus maintained that the law of the Gospel shall never be annulled, and that whensoever the promised Beauty is made manifest and all the signs are revealed, He must needs re-affirm and establish the law proclaimed in the Gospel, so that there may remain in the world no faith but His faith. This is their fundamental belief. And their conviction is such that were a person to be made manifest with all the promised signs and to promulgate that which is contrary to the letter of the law of the Gospel, they must assuredly renounce him, refuse to submit to his law, declare him an infidel, and laugh him to scorn. This is proved by that which came to pass when the sun of the Muhammadan Revelation was revealed. Had they sought with a humble mind from the Manifestations of God in every Dispensation the true meaning of these words revealed in the sacred books – words the misapprehension of which hath caused men to be deprived of the recognition of the Sadratu’l-Muntaha, the ultimate Purpose – they surely would have been guided to the light of the Sun of Truth, and would have discovered the mysteries of divine knowledge and wisdom.”
-Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 27-28
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eddie_too
Guest
to the bahai who read this, Christians already know that hasayn ali contradicted most of what Jesus taught His twelve apostles.
consequently, your providing quotations from hasayn ali that demonstrate his teachings contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ is simply re-stating the obvious.
on a different point, I read the link about what is supposedly new teachings introduced to mankind by hasayn ali and I determined that none of them were new to the world of men at the time of hasayn ali. none of the concepts identified as new from hasayn ali were actually new teachings.
long before husayn ali appeared on the scene, john Wesley had already taught prohibition against alcohol.
I am certain that adultery and fornication were prohibited by many others prior to hasayn ali’s prohibition.
Jesus prayed that all might be One (the doctrine of unity) long before hasayn ali came along.
one world government had been touted by people long before hasayn ali lived.
many, many others, throughout history have urged that people be educated.
equality of the sexes was touted in Christianity from its beginning.
as for monogamy, I thought hasayn ali himself had more than one wife?
consequently, your providing quotations from hasayn ali that demonstrate his teachings contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ is simply re-stating the obvious.
on a different point, I read the link about what is supposedly new teachings introduced to mankind by hasayn ali and I determined that none of them were new to the world of men at the time of hasayn ali. none of the concepts identified as new from hasayn ali were actually new teachings.
long before husayn ali appeared on the scene, john Wesley had already taught prohibition against alcohol.
I am certain that adultery and fornication were prohibited by many others prior to hasayn ali’s prohibition.
Jesus prayed that all might be One (the doctrine of unity) long before hasayn ali came along.
one world government had been touted by people long before hasayn ali lived.
many, many others, throughout history have urged that people be educated.
equality of the sexes was touted in Christianity from its beginning.
as for monogamy, I thought hasayn ali himself had more than one wife?
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Nick44
Guest
Not just a possibility, but a certainty. Ever religion (Christians killing Christians is also a part of history) over time, undergoes change and decline, leading to what you describe above. That’s why God periodically sends a New Messenger with a New Message to reestablish order and unity. Ever single Manifestation has promised another to follow, and Baha’u’llah promises that that process has no end.
Seed–>Tree–>Fruit–>Seed Within–>Tree–>Fruit…>>>>>>>>>>>
This process does not happen quickly, it happens over many centuries for each religion.
An Islamic tradition attributed to Muhammad predicts the same decline for Islam:
“There will come a time for my people when there will remain nothing of the Qur’an except its outward form and nothing of Islam except its name and they will call themselves by this name even though they are the people furthest from it. The mosques will be full of people but they will be empty of right guidance. The religious leaders of that day will be the most evil religious leaders under the heavens; sedition and dissension will go out from them and to them will it return.”
-ibn Babuya, Thawab ul-A’mal
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GaryTaylor
Guest
In theory, but debatable, God is a factor in this unknown day by day account. How does it end in Baha’u’llahs revelation? Does the Arab or Jewish Jesus come to judge the living and the dead?
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Nick44
Guest
In Baha’i belief, ‘Judgement Day’ is the ‘Day’ a new Messenger appears…so, for the Jews, their Judgement Day happened when Jesus appeared. Are they blind or seeing? Wheat or tares? Spiritually alive or dead?In theory, but debatable, God is a factor in this unknown day by day account. How does it end in Baha’u’llahs revelation? Does the Arab or Jewish Jesus come to judge the living and the dead?
“In the Bahá’í interpretation, the coming of each Manifestation of God is a Day of Judgment, but the coming… of Bahá’u’lláh is the great Day of Judgment for the world cycle in which we are living. The trumpet blast of which Christ and Muḥammad and many other prophets speak is the call of the Manifestation, which is sounded for all who are in heaven and on earth. The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity.” --Baha’u’llah and the New Era, p 220
Baha’u’llah said that His fears were not for Himself, but for the One to come after Him (the next Manifestation), the One destined to come.
How does Baha’u’llah’s Revelation end? Probably more of the same, variations on the same theme, with reluctance to accept the new Prophet. He did say that His Revelation is the “Day that will not be followed by night”. meaning that although it is a 100% certainty that the new Manifestation will be opposed and persecuted by the existing religious order, from here on out it will never be as bad or severe as it has been in the past.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
How do we measure; “it will never be as bad or severe as it has been in the past.”
A supernatural eternal existence of selfishness, error and enmity? They all stay because they don’t know any better?
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Nick44
Guest
Don’t know exactly how we would measure it, but less banishment, crucifixion, torture, exile, execution and persecution would certainly be an improvement.
Until a persons last breath they can come to faith and progress is infinite in the spiritual worlds.
"The progress of man’s spirit in the divine world, after the severance of its connection with the body of dust, is through the bounty and grace of the Lord alone, or through the intercession and the sincere prayers of other human souls, or through the charities and important good works which are performed in its name. --Abdu’l-Baha, SAQ, p 240
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Techno2000
Guest
If the shoe fits, wear it.
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Techno2000
Guest
The Baha’i Religion wishes they were persecuted then they might have something to hang their Hat on, but as it stands now… nobody really cares.
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