Was C.S. Lewis Catholic?

[Lost_Found]

David Zampino:

George Sayer’s biography of Lewis “Jack”. Sayer was a Catholic – indeed, a convert.

That is not a valid reason. Just because you read that particular biography of Lewis and did not find a specific event there, you should not dismiss as “patently false” and “suggestions”.

 

[David_Zampino]

Lost&Found:

That is incorrect, because David Zampino already categorically dismissed whatever my source was - he asserted that the content of my post was “suggestion”, and “patently false” without request or concern for the source.

Sorry if I offended you – certainly NOT my intention.
Lost&Found:

He must have had a reason to do so. I had to follow up to see whether it was merely ignorance of history on his part. Surely ignorance of an event cannot mean an event did not occur.

You are most certainly correct when you suggest that ignorance of an event cannot mean an event did not occur.

However, I can assure you that I am not ignorant with regard to the history of CS Lewis! (As a matter of fact, I teach Lewis on the University level!)
Lost&Found:

Also David Zampino is merely speculating when he says I “would love some excuse to claim CS Lewis”. In fact I am merely interested in the facts and the truth, and have no desire to claim what is not my own. So that was speculation without any basis in my post.

Apparently I HAVE struck a nerve! Once again, I apologize for any offense given!

Actually, my suggestion that many Catholics would love an excuse to claim Lewis was based far more generally than you.
Lost&Found:

If you Google “CS Lewis” and “Last rites” you will find plenty of hits. This is only one:

rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/lewis/general.htm

Again, I am strictly concerned with the truth & facts - not in being right. If Joe Zampino based his post on definite knowledge that the countless sources are “patently false” could he let me know and I will be more careful in the future.

That would be DAVID Zampino, not Joe!

Lewis DID receive the Last Rites – from the Church of England. They were administered by the Reverend Michael Watts, who was a curate at the Church of Saint Mary Magdalen, in mid-July of 1963. He was buried in a Church of England service held at the Headington Quarry Church.

In the revised edition of Sayer’s biography “Jack” (1994 – the first edition was published in 1988), Sayer devotes a significant portion of his “Afterward” to the relationship Lewis had vis a vis the Catholic Church. Of the major biographies of Lewis, Sayer’s is the best by far. He makes strong use of the primary source material available. I would highly recommend the book for any true Lewis fan.

 

[David_Zampino]

Lost&Found:

That is not a valid reason. Just because you read that particular biography of Lewis and did not find a specific event there, you should not dismiss as “patently false” and “suggestions”.

???

George Sayer’s biography of Lewis is pretty much the standard by which other Lewis scholarship is judged. Sayer deals – in depth – with Lewis’s relationship to the Catholic Church, and his book is rich in primary source materials. But the fact that he went to Confession and received the Last Rites does not make him a Roman Catholic. Many, many Anglicans observe both Confession and the Last Rites.

Christopher Derrick – a student of Lewis – wrote a book entitled “C. S. Lewis and the Church of Rome” in which he suggests that Lewis was closest to becoming Catholic around 1950. George Sayer agrees with this assesment.

Now, if you have any primary source evidence otherwise, I would be very much interested in seeing it.

Respectfully,

 

[Lost_Found]

David Zampino:

Lewis DID receive the Last Rites – from the Church of England. They were administered by the Reverend Michael Watts, who was a curate at the Church of Saint Mary Magdalen, in mid-July of 1963. He was buried in a Church of England service held at the Headington Quarry Church.

Thank you, that’s more what I was looking for. Your first post stated that he did not receive clergy at the time of his death which did not answer my question.
Could you also supply your source that CS Lewis did not regularly go to confession to a Catholic priest.
David - Although I am impressed with your qualifications, I am merely on a fact finding mission about CS Lewis. Please stop speculating my motives. Thanks in advance.

 

[David_Zampino]

Lost&Found:

If you Google “CS Lewis” and “Last rites” you will find plenty of hits. This is only one:

rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/lewis/general.htm

I checked out that website. It appears to be a rather viciously anti-Catholic (and anti-most Protestant) ultra-fundamentalist, Calvinist site. The site seems to deny that Lewis was a Christian at all – and they are not at all careful with the presentation of facts.

Hardly acceptable for a discussion of primary source material.

 

[David_Zampino]

Lost&Found:

Thank you, that’s more what I was looking for. Your first post stated that he did not receive clergy at the time of his death which did not answer my question.
Could you also supply your source that CS Lewis did not regularly go to confession to a Catholic priest.
David - Although I am impressed with your qualifications, I am merely on a fact finding mission about CS Lewis. Please stop speculating my motives. Thanks in advance.

Dear Sir,

I am not, and have not, speculated on your motives. Indeed, in a previous post, I apologized for even giving such an impression.

I do question the accuracy and legitimacy of the source you cited.

If you are interested in facts about the life and person of CS Lewis, I would strongly recommend Sayer’s biography, and also the books on Lewis written by Kathryn Lindskoog. You might also be interested in “Brothers and Friends” which are selections from the diaries of Major W. H. Lewis, C. S. Lewis’s older brother and arguably closest friend. You also might be interested in “Lentenlands” written by Douglas Gresham, Lewis’s stepson.

Respectfully,

 

[Lost_Found]

David Zampino:

I checked out that website. It appears to be a rather viciously anti-Catholic (and anti-most Protestant) ultra-fundamentalist, Calvinist site. The site seems to deny that Lewis was a Christian at all – and they are not at all careful with the presentation of facts.

Hardly acceptable for a discussion of primary source material.

I suspect that we are not on the same quest for truth. Have a nice day Joe.

 

[walstan]

MikeWM:

Agreed - though a lot of this i due to excellent work by the leaders of the two faiths. The wonderful work by David Sheppard and Derek Warlock in the 80s in Liverpool, for example, stopped and reversed what could have been quite unpleasant sectarianism in the city.

While ‘low church’ Anglicans are quite markedly different from Catholics, it can be less than trivial to distinguish the ‘high church’ Anglicans sometimes. Some of the ‘Anglo-Catholics’ I (jokingly) call Catholics who don’t want an infallible Pope They certainly have confession, and I think also last rites.

Mike

Sorry Mike, no more LAST RITES, that term went out after the second Vatican council, it’s now annointing of the sick.

 

[gilliam]

walstan:

Sorry Mike, no more LAST RITES, that term went out after the second Vatican council, it’s now annointing of the sick.

That’s what I thought too, until the Pope died and everyone called it Last Rites again.

 

[MikeWM]

walstan:

Sorry Mike, no more LAST RITES, that term went out after the second Vatican council, it’s now annointing of the sick.

That’s true (I had it myself twice in hospital) I was just following the terminology of the previous poster.

What’s the official term for the ‘actual’ last rites though, where you get Viaticum and/or the apostolic pardon as part of the sacrament? Is that just ‘Anointing of the Sick Plus!’

Mike

 

[David_Zampino]

walstan:

Sorry Mike, no more LAST RITES, that term went out after the second Vatican council, it’s now annointing of the sick.

Convenient, then, of Lewis to die during the Council!

Anglicans had not yet gone through their “liturgical renewal”! For him, it was the Last Rites! (Although many Anglicans do practice Anointing of the Sick).

Blessings,

 

[AJC]

Teles:

I’m just wondering if C.S. Lewis was Catholic?

No.

 

[James_2_24]

walstan:

Sorry Mike, no more LAST RITES, that term went out after the second Vatican council, it’s now annointing of the sick.

I understand that both terms are acceptable. Nothing wrong with using them interchangeably. I hear them both on a regular basis. I assume you are being sarcastic.

 

[LausDeo]

I understand that both terms are acceptable. Nothing wrong with using them interchangeably. I hear them both on a regular basis. I assume you are being sarcastic.

Last Rites is no longer the correct name. Since the 1970’s it’s also been given to gravely ill people and not only those about to die. I believe it was JPII who approved the new name which I believe is, “Sacrament of the Sick and Dying” or something close to that. It more accurately reflects what the sacrament is used for.

 

[LausDeo]

In Sacram Unctione Infirmorum the sacrament was revised or clarified to include those that are gravely ill…no only those about to die.

Also, as mentioned in a post above the correct name is “Anointing of the Sick”.

Here’s some quotes from the document:

"The Second Vatican Council adds the following: “‘Extreme Unction,’ which may also and more fittingly be called ‘Anointing of the Sick,’ is not a sacrament for those only who are at the point of death.”

" All these elements had to be taken into consideration in revising the rite of Sacred Anointing, in order better to adapt to present-day conditions those elements which were subject to change.(12)

We thought fit to modify the sacramental formula in such a way that, in view of the words of Saint James, the effects of the sacrament might be better expressed."

“The vernacular editions, prepared by the episcopal conferences and confirmed by the Apostolic See, will come into force on the day that will be laid down by the individual conferences. The old Order can be used until December 31, 1973. From January 1, 1974, however, the new Order only is to be used by all those whom it concerns.”

Sacram Unctione Infirmorum

 

[MikeWM]

Indeed. As I said above, I had it twice myself in hospital last year. I was pretty ill, but not at any immediate risk of dying unless things had taken a couple of turns for the worse.

Mike

 

[Arba_Sicula]

LausDeo:

Last Rites is no longer the correct name. Since the 1970’s it’s also been given to gravely ill people and not only those about to die. I believe it was JPII who approved the new name which I believe is, “Sacrament of the Sick and Dying” or something close to that. It more accurately reflects what the sacrament is used for.

Maybe so, but there’s nothing wrong with using the old name if you’re used to it. I still go to Confession, not to “Reconciliation,” and I bless myself “…and the Holy Ghost. Amen.” The ones who prefer “Holy Spirit” can use that, too.

 

[James_2_24]

Arba Sicula:

Maybe so, but there’s nothing wrong with using the old name if you’re used to it. I still go to Confession, not to “Reconciliation,” and I bless myself “…and the Holy Ghost. Amen.” The ones who prefer “Holy Spirit” can use that, too.

Exactly my point, thanks. Many Priests whom I talk to use both terms. If they know that the person if near death/dying they say they are administering the Last Rites. If the person is very sick they say they are aministering the anointing of the sick.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with either.