Was Creation Created by Jesus

[lakotak]

I know this is probably a really dumb question, but I need to ask for an understanding as it has been a question for a very long time. Was everything literally created by Jesus or God the Father.

In John 1:3 it says Through him God made all things, not one thing in all creation was made without him. Is it the Church’s belief that Jesus created all things. I know what may seem obvious, but with the Bible obvious may not be a correct assumption. What is the Church’s view on this.

 

[R_C]

Not a dumb question, in fact it’s rather profound. Here’s what I recall.

There is One God in three persons. When the Father acts, the Son acts and the Holy Spirit acts. So if the Father creates, the Son creates, and the Spirit creates.

We know that the Father is the Creator of all things, and that all things were made through the Son.

We also know that all creation was given life through/by the Holy Spirit:

By the Word of the Lord [the Son] the heavens were made [by the Father], and all their host by the breath of His mouth [the Holy Spirit] (Psalm 33:6)

When You send forth Your Spirit [or Your breath], they are created: and You renew the face of the ground. (Psalm 104:30)

However, while each divine person is understood to have had a specific role in the creation, God is One and acts as One, with One will. Yes, even Christ does not have an independent will:

I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

As for the Holy Spirit:

He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears …] He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

 

[triumphguy]

Well Jesus is the Word made Flesh.

But creation was made by the Father through the Son (before the Word was made flesh in our timeline)

So, yes and no.

[BIBLEDRB]Colossians 1:16-17[/BIBLEDRB]

But as the Son, the Word, and not the “historical” Jesus.

Though Jesus is of course the Word made Flesh.

 

[MichaelHowling]

God being a God that exhists as family in PERFECT communion acts as One.

In the story of creation, we get a glimpse of this

In the beginning God created heaven and earth.
2 Now the earth was a formless void, there was darkness over the deep, with a divine wind sweeping over the waters.
3 God said, ‘Let there be light,’ and there was light

There are three characters depicted at the begining: God (the father), the wind (the holy spirit) and Jesus is depicted by Gods WORD that He uses to create.

Later, another clue…“Let US make man in our image”

 

[lakotak]

Not a dumb question, in fact it’s rather profound. Here’s what I recall.

There is One God in three persons. When the Father acts, the Son acts and the Holy Spirit acts. So if the Father creates, the Son creates, and the Spirit creates.

We know that the Father is the Creator of all things, and that all things were made through the Son.

We also know that all creation was given life through/by the Holy Spirit:

However, while each divine person is understood to have had a specific role in the creation, God is One and acts as One, with One will. Yes, even Christ does not have an independent will:

As for the Holy Spirit:

Ok, if God is One but three persons, was the literal creation directed through the Son as the will of all three persons? I hope this doesn’t sound too weird.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

Ok, if God is One but three persons, was the literal creation directed through the Son as the will of all three persons? I hope this doesn’t sound too weird.

You can’t divide the Trinty ( 3 in one God) if you divide them then you have three gods instead of one. God brought everything into being and without him there is nothing

 

[lakotak]

You can’t divide the Trinty ( 3 in one God) if you divide them then you have three gods instead of one. God brought everything into being and without him there is nothing

I was not intending to divide. Here is what I was thinking, an illustration,

The Trinity- three containers with one substance-water. Two containers decide to pour their essence-still God-into the third container which created everything. All was created by the third container yet all is still God in union as three persons. You can take water and pour two containers into a third container and then pour out the third container over something. The essence of all that is poured is still water regardless of the containers. Probably not the best way to express this but this is my thoughts.

 

[MichaelHowling]

Not bad except the three containers to be God must already be completly filled with water from the begining.

 

[MichaelHowling]

So they must act simultaneously

 

[lakotak]

So they must act simultaneously

Ok, I understand the simultaneous action. I am not arguing this point so don’t get me wrong on what I am going to say. If all three are acting simultaneously then why is it expressed as such in John 1:3 through Jesus if Jesus is not directing (for lack of a better word) the creation. Is it because this is such a mystery that this was just the way it was expressed in Scripture. It seems that the Scripture passage “Let us make man in our own image” gives a better understanding if creation was brought forth by the simultaneous action of the Godhead than the way it is expressed in John. At this point John seems confusing. I guess, unless you are a scholar, it give the impression that the creation action was directed within the Godhead through Jesus.

 

[lakotak]

Not bad except the three containers to be God must already be completly filled with water from the begining.

What does the amount of water have to do with the essence that is within the containers. I am basically speaking of the essence of God not the quantity. Any amount of water can flow from one place to another, but the essence that flows is still water. A river can flow into the ocean, but the essence that is flowing is still water. This was my point. Again, I have no intention of arguing a point only stating it for information to those who are better scholars than I am an in the hope of learning more about this.

 

[MichaelHowling]

If it helps you with Johns passage.

Jesus is the Word used by God the father in genesis and the Word of God is a living word and causes action.

God said : "Let there be Light " …“and there was light” Gods world always causes action (many areas in scripture prove this). But all three are intimatly involved

 

[lakotak]

If it helps you with Johns passage.

**Jesus is the Word used by God the father in genesis and the Word of God is a living word and causes action. **

God said : "Let there be Light " …“and there was light” Gods world always causes action (many areas in scripture prove this). But all three are intimatly involved

So God the Father used, for lack of a better word, the Word (Son) to bring forth all creation. Since God cannot be divided then all were involved in the creation by the fact that all three persons are God and by that fact would have had to have been in involved in creation. The Will of God for creation was unified within the Trinity, but the action was expressed through the Second Person. Am I anywhere in the ballpark?

 

[MichaelHowling]

Lol, I suppose.

I really wouldn’t dwell on the small stuff. The one Triune God created the world. Genesis dosen’t really explain all the in’s and outs…it was never it’s purpose. It is trying to express the theological fact that God was the creator of all things seen and unseen.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

So God the Father used, for lack of a better word, the Word (Son) to bring forth all creation. Since God cannot be divided then all were involved in the creation by the fact that all three persons are God and by that fact would have had to have been in involved in creation. The Will of God for creation was unified within the Trinity, but the action was expressed through the Second Person. Am I anywhere in the ballpark?

I’m trying to understand what your asking. Are you asking if Jesus is the the only one that made everything? The Trinity always acts together because it is God. The action of creation was done by all them they can’t work seperately. It’s always together for it is one God

 

[lakotak]

I’m trying to understand what your asking. Are you asking if Jesus is the the only one that made everything? The Trinity always acts together because it is God. The action of creation was done by all them they can’t work seperately. It’s always together for it is one God

Then the word of John 1:3 confuses me. Was the action of creation **expressed **through Him within the unified Will of the Trinity?

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

Then the word of John 1:3 confuses me. Was the action of creation **expressed **through Him within the unified Will of the Trinity?

Creation was made expressed through the Trinty (God) they all work together they can’t act alone and can’t be split up for God is one

 

[lakotak]

Creation was made expressed through the Trinty (God) they all work together they can’t act alone and can’t be split up for God is one

Then how does the average person interpret John 1:3 without being a Biblical Scholar? This seems to be a contradiction with what you are saying. I am not criticizing you. Why does John express it as though the creation happened through Jesus (Him) and not through the Trinity (Us)?

 

[triumphguy]

So God the Father used, for lack of a better word, the Word (Son) to bring forth all creation. Since God cannot be divided then all were involved in the creation by the fact that all three persons are God and by that fact would have had to have been in involved in creation. The Will of God for creation was unified within the Trinity, but the action was expressed through the Second Person. Am I anywhere in the ballpark?

Yep:

God spoke (the Word) and whatever it was came into being.

God didn’t create without the Word. God always spoke the Word and spoke through the Word.

 

[centurionguard]

I know this is probably a really dumb question, but I need to ask for an understanding as it has been a question for a very long time. Was everything literally created by Jesus or God the Father.

In John 1:3 it says Through him God made all things, not one thing in all creation was made without him. Is it the Church’s belief that Jesus created all things. I know what may seem obvious, but with the Bible obvious may not be a correct assumption. What is the Church’s view on this.

It’s not a dumb question. No body has full understanding in the Mystery of the Holy Trinity.
However; if you take to heart in Faith and Believe with all your being that (“IT IS”) truly the same God (“Jesus”) Whom visited Moses in the Burning Bush, Whom visits us hidden in the Holy Eucharist, Whom was Incarnated as a Holy small infant child in an Immaculate Mothers Blessed Womb, and lived His life for the redeemption of sinners. Your Believe is Correct.

Personally I love the scripture reading from Saint John Chapter One
drbo.org/chapter/50001.htm

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. [4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

[6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. [7] This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him. [8] He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light. [9] That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [12] But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. [13] Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. [15] John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me, is preferred before me: because he was before me.

[16] And of his fulness we all have received, and grace for grace. [17] For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. [18] No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. [19] And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent from Jerusalem priests and Levites to him, to ask him: Who art thou? [20] And he confessed, and did not deny: and he confessed: I am not the Christ.

[21] And they asked him: What then? Art thou Elias? And he said: I am not. Art thou the prophet? And he answered: No. [22] They said therefore unto him: Who art thou, that we may give an answer to them that sent us? What sayest thou of thyself? [23] He said: I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Isaias. [24] And they that were sent, were of the Pharisees. [25] And they asked him, and said to him: Why then dost thou baptize, if thou be not Christ, nor Elias, nor the prophet?

[26] John answered them, saying: I baptize with water; but there hath stood one in the midst of you, whom you know not. [27] The same is he that shall come after me, who is preferred before me: the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to loose. [28] These things were done in Bethania, beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing. [29] The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him, and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who taketh away the sin of the world. [30] This is he, of whom I said: After me there cometh a man, who is preferred before me: because he was before me.

[31] And I knew him not, but that he may be made manifest in Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. [32] And John gave testimony, saying: I saw the Spirit coming down, as a dove from heaven, and he remained upon him. [33] And I knew him not; but he who sent me to baptize with water, said to me: He upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon him, he it is that baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. [34] And I saw, and I gave testimony, that this is the Son of God.