Was Death Present in the Garden of Eden, before the fall?

[StAnastasia]

Catholic theologians understand that figurative language was used to describe the very real event of original sin which took place at the very beginning of the human history.

When was the “very beginning of the human history”?

Catholic theologians in accord with the Catholic Church recognize that the original severing of the relationship between the first human and our Creator affected the human nature of all the descendents from the first, two, sole parents of the human species.

How did it affect it? Was there literally a change in human nature? If so, based on what action symbolized by eating the forbidden fruit?

Might there be other theological models than eating fruit to describe the dislocation of creaturehood?

 

[StAnastasia]

Where does it say that?

Where does it say what?

 

[buffalo]

In fact, 99% of all species that have existed are no extinct. The coming into and going out of existence has a fact of biological life for hundreds of millions, indeed for billions of years.

It’s time to look at Mendel’s Accountant. More support for IDvolution. :yup:

It shows that we have a problem Houston. Since creation the genome has been deteriorating. According to the Bible man has been around for approx 250-300 generations. Acording to this we go extinct around 350.

Download it here.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...442611469871_1370622442_1219376_6273987_n.jpg

Rate, molecular spectrum, and consequences of human mutation

 

[StAnastasia]

I know that this sounds distasteful, but post 50 hints that almost-humans produced moral consciousness.

They didn’t produce moral consciousness, but they had it.

Almost-humans do not have spiritual souls. So where else would moral consciousness come from when all that exists is a lump of matter known as the anatomy which eventually decomposes or becomes fossilized?

Can you show that “almost-humans” (whatever that means) do not have spiritual souls? Moral concsiousness evolved, along with religious consciousness, an aesthetic sense, language, etc.

Catholicism recognizes our human nature as being an unique unification of spiritual/material called to share in God’s life through knowledge and love.

To be sure.

If human beings are just lumps of this or that waiting for death in or out of the Garden of Eden, where does God the Creator fit in.

Humans are not just lumps of “this or that.” God the Creator fits in because God is creator of everything.

Saying that God is the Creator of all no longer applies when He is denied participation in the creation of human beings.

Who says God “is denied participation in the creation of human beings”?

 

[buffalo]

For Grannymh

Mathematical Support for Adam and Eve and what I have referred to as “pristine DNA”. Tie this together with Mendel’s Accountant.

Introduction to the Mathematics of Evolution

[**Chapter 19**](http://www.mathematicsofevolution.com/ChaptersMath/Chapter_190__Genetic_Entropy__.html)

[**Genetic Entropy and Genetic Debris**](http://www.mathematicsofevolution.com/ChaptersMath/Chapter_190__Genetic_Entropy__.html)

…
So what are the facts? Human DNA is between 50% and 99+% necessary and useful. Regardless of what the percentage is, our human DNA is virtually perfect and genetic defects are very rare.

How do you start with simplistic garbage (the DNA of the “first living cell”) and end up with incomprehensibly complex human DNA which has very, very, very few defects? You don’t end up with perfect DNA by using randomness; that is for sure. Yet, randomness is the one and only heart and soul of neo-Darwinism.

What all of this means is this:

1. Because humans have virtually perfect DNA, our first ancestors would have had perfect DNA,
2. Because of genetic entropy our first ancestor with perfect DNA could not have lived more than several thousand years ago (or our DNA would be very imperfect by now).

But this is not all. All complex living species today are in exactly the same situation as humans; meaning they have virtually perfect DNA, meaning their earliest ancestor could only have lived a few thousand years ago!!

 

[Michael_Francis]

Sticky: Temporary Ban on Evolution/Atheism Threads