Was DIGNITATIS HUMANAE infallible?

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Isn’t the nub of such discussions of the infallibility of Council documents that prorgessives say they are so because they validate the subsequent changes in our religion and traditionalists don’t think they do?

Personal point: Papal Infallibility is historically new and I think an excellent way for the Devil to use Catholics obedience against them. The Church makes a move to stop Modernism: Papal Infallibility. The infernal reaction: use it to back up denuding Churches and such. If it can be stretched to include things like sentences in Council documents, oh, what mischief may be worked!

You can validate anything from a poorly-worded legal document. ‘Creeping Infallibility’ is extremely dangerous.
 
RogerDeCourcy said:
Isn’t the nub of such discussions of the infallibility of Council documents that prorgessives say they are so because they validate the subsequent changes in our religion and traditionalists don’t think they do?

Personal point: Papal Infallibility is historically new and I think an excellent way for the Devil to use Catholics obedience against them. The Church makes a move to stop Modernism: Papal Infallibility. The infernal reaction: use it to back up denuding Churches and such. If it can be stretched to include things like sentences in Council documents, oh, what mischief may be worked!

You can validate anything from a poorly-worded legal document. ‘Creeping Infallibility’ is extremely dangerous.
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Actually traditionalists would lead you to believe that Vatican II and the above mentioned encyclical is contrary to Pope Pius XII and Pope Leo XIII encyclicals. An incorrect assumption, Which is addressed by Pope Benedict XVI in the above link.

Here you can read up on where I’m coming from. And this will answer some of your other concerns also.

google.com/url?q=http://www.catholictradition.org/Eucharist/melchisedech-appx10.htm&sa=U&ei=YYvSTp2kN8jz0gHLt-EK&ved=0CB8QFjAC&usg=AFQjCNHyQyGPehrlIDchU_pmHwnL7g6vLw

Peace
 
Hadrianus said:
Paul VI in his allocutio of 12 January 1966 stated that the council defined no dogma. Fr Lucien’s views are very much his own. One can attached the note of infallibility only to dogmatic definitions of Popes or councils or in situations in which the Pope and bishops of the world propose a doctrine of faith or morals as divinely revealed and to be held as such by all the faithful (cf Dei Filius of vatican I and Lumen gentium of vatican II).

This is because the primary object of the magisterium is Divine Revelation, it’s secondary object being those truths necessary to safe guard it , eg that human reason is valid that the intellect is capable of abstract thought etc.as well as truths of Natural Law which is that by which rational creatures participate in the divine eternal law.

Dignitatis Humanae falls into none of these categories and was intended as a purely pastoral decree as the relator (Mons de Mestre, if memory seves) explained to the assembled fathers. Gaudium et Spes is another example of a nondogmatic or noninfallible nature; except naturally when such documents reaffirm previously defined teaching.

All the decrees of Vatican II represent a high level of the ordinary magisterium, but not every phrase is intended to be an infallible utterance…
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Above link is in regards to the 12 January 1966 statement by Pope Paul VI and includes what he stated on that date. Doesn’t resolve the arguement as you will see. Pope Benedict XVI clarifys the debate.

Peace
 
We must remember that truths articulated by the Church are not final because they are infallible…instead they are infallible when they are final. Meaning there is not higher authority on earth.

Along these lines, does anyone have a good reference for the “hierarchy” of documents produced by the vatican…eg. beyond the Bible and the CCC how do decrees, encyclicals etc fit into the totality of the truth that is “current”?
 
tskrobacz said:
We must remember that truths articulated by the Church are not final because they are infallible…instead they are infallible when they are final. Meaning there is not higher authority on earth.

Along these lines, does anyone have a good reference for the “hierarchy” of documents produced by the vatican…eg. beyond the Bible and the CCC how do decrees, encyclicals etc fit into the totality of the truth that is “current”?
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Here’s the V-II documents.

google.com/url?q=http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/&sa=U&ei=BBXZTuLrGsfy0gHezs2EDg&ved=0CBIQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNH4bi-Pb78RHVJx-mMU47mv6ifmQw

Peace
 
Yes, Vatican II is what guides the church today. Lumen Gentium is the Dogmatic Constitution of the Catholic Church.

Peace
 
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