Was fermented wine used at Last Supper?

[Nine_Two]

Speaking only for the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the use of leavened bread is considered to be the most ancient attested practice in the church. It was only in the Middle Ages that the use of unleavened wafers became common. The use of a single loaf of bread is considered to be a sign of the unity of believers. This point of view is explicated in the Use of the Means of Grace, which was adopted in 1997.

I have seen a painting in Bruges, Belgium in which a larger loaf was painted out in order to paint in an unleavened wafer. Quite frankly, I don’t think the presence of a few bubbles in the bread would do much to deter Jesus from being truly present.

I bake the bread for our congregation and can and have baked both leavened and unleavened bread. The congregation prefers leavened. When we speak of the Foretaste of the Feast to come, I do not associate that with flavorless wafers sticking to my palate.

Given that acrimony over the use of unleavened bread predates the Middle Ages, I’m going to have to say it is false that the practice only began in the middle ages.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

I think the comments about the use of wafers beginning in the Middle Ages was in reference to the Western church, not including the Orthodox community. The use of grape juice is an American practice that goes no further back than the mid 1800’s when Welch developed a method for keeping juice from fermenting. I think we sometimes take our local practices to be universal and they rarely are.

 

[rbarcia]

Mark 2

22And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins—and the wine is destroyed, and so are the skins. But new wine is for fresh wineskins."

A. The Biblical Words for Wine

1. Oinos/Yayin

The most common word in the New Testament for wine is the Greek word oinos. It is a general word that simply refers to the fermented juice of the grape. The Old Testament equivalent to the Greek word oinos is yayin, the root of which means to “bubble up” or “boil up.” The 1901 Jewish Encyclopedia (vol. 12, p. 533) states that yayin, at least in the rabbinic period, was diluted with water.

1. Gleukos/Tirosh

The Greek word gleukos–from which we get the English word glucose, means “new wine.” It is used in Acts 2:13 to refer to the apostles on the day of Pentecost. It says they were “full of new wine.” Although it was comparatively fresh and not yet fully aged, it was potentially intoxicating. The mockers in in Acts 2:13 were accusing the apostles of being drunk.

The Old Testament word for new wine is tirosh. Hosea 4:11 says “wine [yayin] and new wine [tirosh] take away the heart.” Drunkenness is the result of drinking this new wine.

1. Sikera/Shakar

The Old Testament word for strong drink is shakar, a term that eventually became restricted to intoxicants other than wine. According to the 1901 Jewish Encyclopedia, it refers to unmixed wine. The New Testament equivalent is the Greek word sikera.

1. Unfermented wine

Because of refrigeration problems in ancient times, wine was often boiled until the liquid evaporated, leaving behind a thick, unintoxicating paste that stored well. It was somewhat similar to modern grape jelly. The people would spread it on bread like a jam, and some still do today in the Middle East.

1. Fermented wine

a) The procedure

Wine stored as a liquid, however, would ferment. Professor Robert Stein, in his “Wine-drinking in New Testament Times” (Christianity Today, 20 June 1975: 9-11), tells us liquid wine was stored in large jugs called amphorae. The pure, unmixed wine would be drawn out of these jugs and poured into large bowls called kraters, where it was mixed with water. From these kraters, it would then be poured into kylix, or cups. Wine would never be served directly from the amphora without first being mixed. And according to other historical data on this period, the mixture could be as high as a 20:1 ratio or lower than 1:1.

b) The perception

Drinking unmixed wine was looked upon by Greek culture as barbaric. Stein quotes Mnesitheus of Athens as saying, “The gods have revealed wine to mortals, to be the greatest blessing for those who use it aright, but for those who use it without measure, the reverse. For it gives food to them that take it and strength in mind and body. In medicine it is most beneficial; it can be mixed with liquid and drugs and it brings aid to the wounded. In daily intercourse, to those who mix and drink it moderately, it gives good cheer; but if you overstep the bounds, it brings violence. Mix it half and half, and you get madness; unmixed, bodily collapse.”

As a beverage, wine was always thought of as a mixed drink in Greek culture. The ratio of water might have varied but only barbarians drank it unmixed. Stein cites patristic writings that show the early church served mixed wine.

c) The present

Beer has approximately 4% alcohol, wine 9-11%, brandy 15- 20%, and hard liquor 40-50% (80-100 proof). So, unmixed wine in biblical times measured at approximately 9-11%. Mixed wine, at a 3:1 ratio, would therefore be between 2.25- to-2.75%. By today’s standards, a drink has to exceed 3.2% to be considered an alcoholic beverage. The wine they consumed was either completely non-alcoholic or sub- alcoholic by today’s standards. To become drunk with wine in those days you would have to drink all day. That is why the Bible commands elders in the church not to be addicted to much wine (1 Tim. 3:3). With such a low alcoholic content, you would have to purpose to become drunk.

So, is drinking wine today the same as in Bible times? No.

Because of the lack of fresh water, it was often necessary to drink wine in biblical times. That is sometimes the case today. If you were in a country and wine was all there was and you were dying of thirst, you would take whatever was available.
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[Prodigal_Son1]

So, is drinking wine today the same as in Bible times? No.

Because of the lack of fresh water, it was often necessary to drink wine in biblical times. That is sometimes the case today. If you were in a country and wine was all there was and you were dying of thirst, you would take whatever was available.
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Mat 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking; and they say: He hath a devil.
Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say: Behold a man that is a glutton and a wine drinker, a friend of publicans and sinners. And wisdom is justified by her children.

Why would Christ have brought up that He was a wine drinker, as an accusation from others, if that wine was not fermented?

If there had been a problem drinking wine according to Jesus, why would He have turned water into wine?

**Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose, that his name may be called upon therein, the tithe of thy corn, and thy wine, and thy oil, and the firstborn of thy herds and thy sheep: that thou mayst learn to fear the Lord thy God at all times.
Deu 14:24 But when the way and the place which the Lord thy God shall choose, are far off, and he hath blessed thee, and thou canst not carry all these things thither,
Deu 14:25 Thou shalt sell them all, and turn them into money, and shalt carry it in thy hand, and shalt go to the place which the Lord shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt buy with the same money whatsoever pleaseth thee, either of the herds or of sheep, wine also and strong drink, and all that thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, and shalt feast, thou and thy house: **

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Ecc 9:7 Go then, and eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with gladness: because thy works please God.**

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Isa 25:6 And the Lord of hosts shall make unto all people in this mountain, a feast of fat things, a feast of wine, of fat things full of marrow, of wine purified from the lees**

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The teaching is to avoid being a drunkard, or causing harm to others because of drinking. The three examples above pretty much put drinking wine today the same as then, in my honest opinion.

 

[Corki]

Mark 2

So, is drinking wine today the same as in Bible times? No.

Because of the lack of fresh water, it was often necessary to drink wine in biblical times. That is sometimes the case today. If you were in a country and wine was all there was and you were dying of thirst, you would take whatever was available.
Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message

But all of the above would lead one to the conclusion that the most Biblical matter for Communion would be diluted wine. It’s a real leap to go from “wine” in any of those descriptions to unfermented pasturized grape juice.

 

[manualman]

Interestingly, before the consecration, the wine IS mixed with water. Hey, I didn’t learn Nuthin’ in 4 years of altar boy duty!