Was given 2 anti-Catholic books to read . .

[EnglishTeacher]

I couldn’t decide if this belonged here or in the Apologetics forum; but anyway, a close family member recently gave me two anti-Catholic books that she wants me to read. One is called Preparing for Eternity: Should We Trust God’s Word or Religious Traditions? by Mike Gendron, which includes topics such as why Eucharistic Adoration is idolatry and which helpfully includes a chapter explaining the difference between Catholics and Christians. The other is The Gospel According to Rome by James McCarthy, which basically compares the Catholic Church with the author’s interpretation of Scripture and concludes that the Catholic Church is “unscriptural.”

So I guess what I want to ask is this: Does anyone have any good ideas for turning this into a positive discussion with my family member about the Catholic Church? I don’t know if I have the stomach for reading all of both books, as they are so full of lies and straw-man arguments that it is hard to know where to begin with them. I am extremely familiar with anti-Catholic arguments, as I am a convert from a Baptist/Evangelical background and have heard all of it before–there is nothing new in the books, from what I have skimmed through. I would be willing to read them if it would help the discussion with the family member, but from past experience, she doesn’t really want to hear the Catholic point of view. I should also mention that in the past when the Catholic subject has come up, she has become extremely emotional about it, so I have avoided bringing it up for a long time.

Any ideas, conversation openers that are not from an overly defensive point of view?

 

[kkollwitz]

Skimming them is enough just to be sure neither has something you haven’t seen before. If you need a single go-to book for responding, I can recommend Catholicism & Fundamentalism by Karl Keating.

 

[Della]

Your family member clearly thinks you need to read these books to “set you straight” about the Church. Funny that she thinks they will sway you when you’ve heard it all before. Anyway, ignore the books and her efforts. Simply say, “Thank you but I’m not interested in re-reading all the things I’ve already heard against the Church. I appreciate your concern for me, but I have found Christ in the Church and I have no interest in reverting.”

If she can’t take that answer, then tell her you no longer wish to discuss the matter unless and until she can be open to what you have to say. In other words, you should be honest with her about it and let her know you understand what she is trying to do. If she wishes to discuss the Faith after that, it’s up to her.

It’s pointless to argue with another person’s feelings–and that’s what you’d be doing by trying to engage her in her present state of mind. Just be as much of a friend as you can be, pray for her, and demonstrate Christ’s love to her, but don’t feel you have to answer every odd objection to the Faith that anyone can cook up.

 

[jeannetherese]

I couldn’t decide if this belonged here or in the Apologetics forum; but anyway, a close family member recently gave me two anti-Catholic books that she wants me to read. One is called Preparing for Eternity: Should We Trust God’s Word or Religious Traditions? by Mike Gendron, which includes topics such as why Eucharistic Adoration is idolatry and which helpfully includes a chapter explaining the difference between Catholics and Christians. The other is The Gospel According to Rome by James McCarthy, which basically compares the Catholic Church with the author’s interpretation of Scripture and concludes that the Catholic Church is “unscriptural.”

So I guess what I want to ask is this: Does anyone have any good ideas for turning this into a positive discussion with my family member about the Catholic Church? I don’t know if I have the stomach for reading all of both books, as they are so full of lies and straw-man arguments that it is hard to know where to begin with them. I am extremely familiar with anti-Catholic arguments, as I am a convert from a Baptist/Evangelical background and have heard all of it before–there is nothing new in the books, from what I have skimmed through. I would be willing to read them if it would help the discussion with the family member, but from past experience, she doesn’t really want to hear the Catholic point of view. I should also mention that in the past when the Catholic subject has come up, she has become extremely emotional about it, so I have avoided bringing it up for a long time.

Any ideas, conversation openers that are not from an overly defensive point of view?

A person trying to convert you has, in his or her perception, your best interests at heart-they want you to grow closer to God. Keeping this in mind may help you formulate kind responses and perhaps you two can pray simply the our Lord will help you to grow in love for Him and for each other.
I have not read the books she is suggesting.
It might be helpful to really limit discussion to a single concern of hers so that you two do not become overwhelmed by regular switching of debate points and issues.
It’s also o.k. for either one of you to say: “let me do a bit more thinking, research, praying, and let’s come back to the issue we are working on together another time.”
You can tell her that you are working on the reading she has shared and then share your struggles with one small issue. By doing so, you are respecting her care for you in sharing, but also setting parameters for discussion by acknowledging that you are not done with the reading and need to focus on only a very small part.
By working through a small part kindly, you can open the door to further small discussions which may be more helpful to your relationship and communication.
I hope that you are able to help her and that the two of you grow in faith and hope and love. May God bless you.
Amen.

 

[getysbg]

There was a post on CA within the last few days refuting Mike Gendron who is a former Catholic. When I am approached with so many topics, I tell the person that I am more than happy to discuss them TWO AT A TIME. This way the attacks have really nowhere
to go. I let the other person pick the two topics, we meet and discuss and then I let them pick the next two topics. And don’t forget the twelve most important words in apologetics - “I don’t know but I’ll find out and get back to you.”

 

[Bonnie]

If you need a single go-to book for responding, I can recommend Catholicism & Fundamentalism by Karl Keating.

I give this suggestion a rousing second! Catholicism & Fundamentalism covers the reasoning behind the false accusations, as well as the accusations. I don’t remember if Gendron is mentioned in the book (and I thought I had it memorized by now! ), but I’m pretty sure McCarthy is.

Both men & their deplorable beliefs have been discussed here at CA multiple times.

You might want to buy 2 copies of C & F - one for yourself and one for the relative.

 

[PietroPaolo]

I couldn’t decide if this belonged here or in the Apologetics forum; but anyway, a close family member recently gave me two anti-Catholic books that she wants me to read. One is called Preparing for Eternity: Should We Trust God’s Word or Religious Traditions? by Mike Gendron, which includes topics such as why Eucharistic Adoration is idolatry and which helpfully includes a chapter explaining the difference between Catholics and Christians. The other is The Gospel According to Rome by James McCarthy, which basically compares the Catholic Church with the author’s interpretation of Scripture and concludes that the Catholic Church is “unscriptural.”

So I guess what I want to ask is this: Does anyone have any good ideas for turning this into a positive discussion with my family member about the Catholic Church? I don’t know if I have the stomach for reading all of both books, as they are so full of lies and straw-man arguments that it is hard to know where to begin with them. I am extremely familiar with anti-Catholic arguments, as I am a convert from a Baptist/Evangelical background and have heard all of it before–there is nothing new in the books, from what I have skimmed through. I would be willing to read them if it would help the discussion with the family member, but from past experience, she doesn’t really want to hear the Catholic point of view. I should also mention that in the past when the Catholic subject has come up, she has become extremely emotional about it, so I have avoided bringing it up for a long time.

Any ideas, conversation openers that are not from an overly defensive point of view?

Why don’t you offer to read the two books she gave you if (and only if) she is also willing to read two books you give her? Once all four books have been read you can sit down together and discuss. If she isn’t willing to read a couple books from you, I’d pass on the opportunity to discuss her choices as it won’t lead anywhere.

God bless.

 

[JamalChristophr]

If you agree to read one of her books, she ought to agree to read one of your books.

 

[Joe_5859]

I give this suggestion a rousing second! Catholicism & Fundamentalism covers the reasoning behind the false accusations, as well as the accusations. I don’t remember if Gendron is mentioned in the book (and I thought I had it memorized by now! ), but I’m pretty sure McCarthy is.

Both men & their deplorable beliefs have been discussed here at CA multiple times.

You might want to buy 2 copies of C & F - one for yourself and one for the relative.

I’ll give it a rousing third.

Honestly, I would tell my relative that I would be happy to read those books if she would first read “Catholicism & Fundamentalism” by Keating (and then I would re-read it myself). Until I knew she was open to discussing these matters in good faith, I wouldn’t be too keen on accommodating such a request. I’ve got enough books on my reading list of things that I actually want to read.

 

[Memaw]

I’ll give it a rousing third.

Honestly, I would tell my relative that I would be happy to read those books if she would first read “Catholicism & Fundamentalism” by Keating (and then I would re-read it myself). Until I knew she was open to discussing these matters in good faith, I wouldn’t be too keen on accommodating such a request. I’ve got enough books on my reading list of things that I actually want to read.

I would too and then see what she thinks. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Panthervision]

I couldn’t decide if this belonged here or in the Apologetics forum; but anyway, a close family member recently gave me two anti-Catholic books that she wants me to read. One is called Preparing for Eternity: Should We Trust God’s Word or Religious Traditions? by Mike Gendron, which includes topics such as why Eucharistic Adoration is idolatry and which helpfully includes a chapter explaining the difference between Catholics and Christians. The other is The Gospel According to Rome by James McCarthy, which basically compares the Catholic Church with the author’s interpretation of Scripture and concludes that the Catholic Church is “unscriptural.”

You may want to have your friend read Gary Michuta’s responsive book to James McCarthy. Or if you decide to read McCarthy’s book have a copy of Michuta’s book close by to refute.

amazon.com/dp/1581880049/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2W9Y0F91ATPAV&coliid=I66WV1NLC2TFZ

 

[styrgwillidar]

I’ll give it a rousing third.

Honestly, I would tell my relative that I would be happy to read those books if she would first read “Catholicism & Fundamentalism” by Keating (and then I would re-read it myself). Until I knew she was open to discussing these matters in good faith, I wouldn’t be too keen on accommodating such a request. I’ve got enough books on my reading list of things that I actually want to read.

And you have a fourth endorsment!!

I would also recommend, “Surprised by Truth” by Patrick Madrid. It’s the conversion stories of various protestant ministers to the Catholic faith and I think would very definitly be appropriate for a protestant to read. (I particularly like the account entitled, “The Bible Made Me Do It”)

“What Catholics Really Believe” by Keating is also a good short book, with short explanations of specific issues.

For heavier reading and understanding that the Catholic teachings are consistent with those of the earliest Christians, prior to the declaration of the canon of scripture.
“Faith of the Early Fathers” Volume I, translated and edited by Jurgens. Those writings consistently referred to the Eucharist as the Body and Blood of Christ, the Real Presence.

Always intrigued by folks insisting on relying only on scripture, yet rejecting the Catholic Church’s authority in declaring the canon of scripture. What are they relying on to determine what is scripture and what isn’t? If Martin Luther could reject 7 books, well, were there books that should have been included that weren’t? Were there additional books he should have rejected? Or was Martin Luther infallible? If the Church was fallible when doing the selection-- how can you rely on the bible in the first place?

 

[chero23]

I personally would throw them away. Or if you guys are in the midst of a healthy dialogue get them some strong Catholic books like the Catechism

 

[CB_Catholic]

I couldn’t decide if this belonged here or in the Apologetics forum; but anyway, a close family member recently gave me two anti-Catholic books that she wants me to read. One is called Preparing for Eternity: Should We Trust God’s Word or Religious Traditions? by Mike Gendron, which includes topics such as why Eucharistic Adoration is idolatry and which helpfully includes a chapter explaining the difference between Catholics and Christians. The other is The Gospel According to Rome by James McCarthy, which basically compares the Catholic Church with the author’s interpretation of Scripture and concludes that the Catholic Church is “unscriptural.”

So I guess what I want to ask is this: Does anyone have any good ideas for turning this into a positive discussion with my family member about the Catholic Church? I don’t know if I have the stomach for reading all of both books, as they are so full of lies and straw-man arguments that it is hard to know where to begin with them. I am extremely familiar with anti-Catholic arguments, as I am a convert from a Baptist/Evangelical background and have heard all of it before–there is nothing new in the books, from what I have skimmed through. I would be willing to read them if it would help the discussion with the family member, but from past experience, she doesn’t really want to hear the Catholic point of view. I should also mention that in the past when the Catholic subject has come up, she has become extremely emotional about it, so I have avoided bringing it up for a long time.

Any ideas, conversation openers that are not from an overly defensive point of view?

To tell you the truth, you don’t need to do this to yourself. Or, perhaps, make a deal. She reads 2 Catholic books defending the faith. There are a number out there, written by former Evangelicals. If she won’t cooperate, what is there to discuss? The best thing for you to do is pray to the Holy Spirit that she become more open to the truth, and then wait for His timing.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

Thanks, everyone, for the advice/suggestions. Perhaps I will see if she is willing to read “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” or a similar book, and then we could have something to discuss (if she is willing). For what it’s worth, I never actually agreed to read the two books. She left them for me in a bag with a note when we were at a recent family gathering, and I saw them after she left.

As someone else mentioned, it is hard enough to find time to read all the books that I want to read, much less two books of this kind. But I would do it and it would be worth it, if it would finally be the means of opening up a discussion. We will see what happens.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thanks, everyone, for the advice/suggestions. Perhaps I will see if she is willing to read “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” or a similar book, and then we could have something to discuss (if she is willing). For what it’s worth, I never actually agreed to read the two books. She left them for me in a bag with a note when we were at a recent family gathering, and I saw them after she left.

As someone else mentioned, it is hard enough to find time to read all the books that I want to read, much less two books of this kind. But I would do it and it would be worth it, if it would finally be the means of opening up a discussion. We will see what happens.

I think asking her if she is willing to read a book or two of your choosing would be a good test for how willing she is to discuss things. If she is unwilling to read it, it would seem to indicate to me that she is not looking to have a conversation that moves in both directions.

 

[saintvinnie]

by Mike Gendron, w

The other is The Gospel According to Rome by James McCarthy,

which basically compares the Catholic Church with the author’s interpretation of

Does anyone have any good ideas for turning this into a positive discussion with my family member about the Catholic Church?

I don’t know if I have the stomach for reading all of both books, as they are so full of lies and straw-man arguments that it is hard to know where to begin with them.

I am extremely familiar with anti-Catholic arguments, as I am a convert from a Baptist/Evangelical background and have heard all of it before–there is nothing new in the books,

Any ideas, conversation openers that are not from an overly defensive point of view?

thanks for postin these – 2 authors-- as i went on line to u tube-- and viewed their – teachings–

as they are not lying about anything-

but have simplified the Gospel- and say that certain things that are taught are not necessary-- and this is what Jesus was teaching- that got him in trouble with that religious organization-- following the TORAH

so you are correct – that this understanding – is not what you need to believe–

as the following describes-- the roman catholic understainding of the Gospel and the Kingdom – that Jesus taught

Re: Your experiences in facilitating RCIA

1…I insist on completely orthodox teaching in our program. I use four main sources when developing a lesson plan…Holy Scripture…The Catechism…

2…The teaching of the early Church Fathers (to show a continuity of belief from the very beginning)…and finally my personal experience as living as a Catholic for the past 65 years.

Trust me when I say that people are hungry for the truth…don’t water down our beliefs.

3… I spend a lot of time with topics that protestants have a hard time accepting…

.4…The Papacy…

5…The Real Presence…

6…Saints…

7…Sola Scriptura…

8…and especially devotion to Mary.

Take your time , learn your material and explain it well and you should do just fine.
God Bless you in your efforts.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

thanks for postin these – 2 authors-- as i went on line to u tube-- and viewed their – teachings–

as they are not lying about anything-

but have simplified the Gospel- and say that certain things that are taught are not necessary-- and this is what Jesus was teaching- that got him in trouble with that religious organization-- following the TORAH

so you are correct – that this understanding – is not what you need to believe–

as the following describes-- the roman catholic understainding of the Gospel and the Kingdom – that Jesus taught

I didn’t mean to imply that they are intentionally lying. I would assume that they sincerely believe what they are teaching, but their books are nevertheless full of untruths and distortions about the Catholic Church. In addition to preaching a different/“simplified” gospel, they also spread misinformation and untruths.

 

[tvknight415]

David Currie’s Born Fundamentalist Born Again Catholic is another good choice. I think it is far gentler in getting the defense of faith across. To me, sometimes Keating’s C&F can seem too aggressive, for a hopefully well-meaning but misinformed family member.