Was Hagar a bonds woman thus Ismael the son of a bonds woman or was she a princess

[lightofeyes]

Was Hagar a bonds woman thus Ismael the son of a bonds woman or was she a princess.

In order to rob Ismael of his right his rights bible writers turn him into the son of a bondswoman, unworthy of any recognition or inheritance. However when we look deeply in to the bible itself we find that there has been foul play on behalf of the bible writers who first of all was not Moses, not GOD but Jewish scribes.Even some Jewish historians have asserted that Sarah was the daughter of a bedioun but Hagar was the daughter of a princess. So since she was a princess here father would not have given her to Abraham as a maid.Also the son of a maid does not become a Prince.God promised the Abraham that the son of Hagar ismael was going to be the father of 12 princes.Do children of maids becomes princes? NO! The 12 princes were of course children od a prince himself whose mother was a princess.His blessed name Ismael was chosen by GOD he was to be the father of 12 princes and the Great grandfather of a great prophet.
On another note Dan and Naph-tail, sons of Jacob from Bilhah the maidservant of Rachel, why are they not rejected just as Ismael is, by followers of the bible.
Does one really beleive that GOD would have created an innocent children, father of 12 princess and then disowns him and calls him a wild *** of a man.

God says in the Bible "as for Ismael I have heard thee. Behold I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful and I will multiply him exceedingly Twelve princes shall he beget and I will make him a great nation (Gen: 21/18).

Blessed he was going to be, son of a princess, a prince himself father of 12 Princes, so the ones who perverted the word of GOD and diswoned him of his rights were humnas not GOD

God in the bible gives a warning to those who to those who curse this great prophet and his offspring GOd promises Abraham" and will make thy name great and I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee and in thee shall all the people of the earth be blessed "(Gen 12/2-3)

So those who claim Ismael was a dumb *** of a man and claim that was from GOD, god has warned them above.
God also promised Abraham that :

I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven (Gen 13/16).

God is not refering only Isacc son of a bedioun here but also to the prince and father of 12 princes Ismael whose mother was none else than a princess and not a bondswoman.

The bible states that"God is not the author of confusion" I can then guarantee you that this pervesion above did not come from GOD, it came from none but satan. GOD did not call ismael a wild *** of a man, satan did.God did not take away the rights from Ismael and give to Isaac Satan did.

Peace…

 

[LilyM]

If Hagar was the daughter of a princess her father would have given her to a prince, not to a nobody like Abraham.

NOT ONE of my half-a-dozen translations of the Bible mentions anything about twelve princes - they all simply say of Ishmael ‘I will make of him a great nation’ - and that was purely for the sake of God’s love for Abraham, nothing to do with Hagar being a princess certainly. Someone’s been putting imaginations into your Bible that aren’t there.

The sons of maids become Kings? Absolutely. David was a shepherd boy, the youngest son of a nobody. He became the greatest King Israel ever had.

 

[eliasaph99]

Was Hagar a bonds woman thus Ismael the son of a bonds woman or was she a princess.

In order to rob Ismael of his right his rights bible writers turn him into the son of a bondswoman, unworthy of any recognition or inheritance. However when we look deeply in to the bible itself we find that there has been foul play on behalf of the bible writers who first of all was not Moses, not GOD but Jewish scribes.Even some Jewish historians have asserted that Sarah was the daughter of a bedioun but Hagar was the daughter of a princess. So since she was a princess here father would not have given her to Abraham as a maid.Also the son of a maid does not become a Prince.God promised the Abraham that the son of Hagar ismael was going to be the father of 12 princes.Do children of maids becomes princes? NO! The 12 princes were of course children od a prince himself whose mother was a princess.His blessed name Ismael was chosen by GOD he was to be the father of 12 princes and the Great grandfather of a great prophet.
On another note Dan and Naph-tail, sons of Jacob from Bilhah the maidservant of Rachel, why are they not rejected just as Ismael is, by followers of the bible.
Does one really beleive that GOD would have created an innocent children, father of 12 princess and then disowns him and calls him a wild *** of a man.

God says in the Bible "as for Ismael I have heard thee. Behold I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful and I will multiply him exceedingly Twelve princes shall he beget and I will make him a great nation (Gen: 21/18).

Blessed he was going to be, son of a princess, a prince himself father of 12 Princes, so the ones who perverted the word of GOD and diswoned him of his rights were humnas not GOD

God in the bible gives a warning to those who to those who curse this great prophet and his offspring GOd promises Abraham" and will make thy name great and I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee and in thee shall all the people of the earth be blessed "(Gen 12/2-3)

So those who claim Ismael was a dumb *** of a man and claim that was from GOD, god has warned them above.
God also promised Abraham that :

I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven (Gen 13/16).

God is not refering only Isacc son of a bedioun here but also to the prince and father of 12 princes Ismael whose mother was none else than a princess and not a bondswoman.

The bible states that"God is not the author of confusion" I can then guarantee you that this pervesion above did not come from GOD, it came from none but satan. GOD did not call ismael a wild *** of a man, satan did.God did not take away the rights from Ismael and give to Isaac Satan did.

Peace…

You can’t trash the legitimacy of what the Bible has written within it and then appeal to the same source to prove a point you’re trying to make. It’s illogical.

 

[BMZ]

I don’t know about Hagar being a princess but I understand from the Bible which clearly says that Hagar, the maid-servant was Abraham’s wife.

Genesis 16:3 Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan."

Hagar, thus cannot be considered a a slave-girl or a maid-servant. She was Abraham’s wife and this is more proper.

BMZ

 

[exoflare]

sigh

Again, for everyone’s info I must mention that the OP is just a troll. Please ignore him… :banghead:

 

[LilyM]

I don’t know about Hagar being a princess but I understand from the Bible which clearly says that Hagar, the maid-servant was Abraham’s wife.

Genesis 16:3 Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan."

Hagar, thus cannot be considered a a slave-girl or a maid-servant. She was Abraham’s wife and this is more proper.

BMZ

She wasn’t actually married to Abraham :nope:

When Sarah gets angry at Hagar Abraham tells Sarah to do with her as she sees fit - ‘she is under your hand’.

If he was legally married to both he wouldn’t give one of his wives total control over the fate of the other - to the extent of sending her away - in this fashion.

 

[MHalsey]

I don’t know about Hagar being a princess but I understand from the Bible which clearly says that Hagar, the maid-servant was Abraham’s wife.

Genesis 16:3 Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan."

Hagar, thus cannot be considered a a slave-girl or a maid-servant. She was Abraham’s wife and this is more proper.

BMZ

Check it again, she was his concubine, not his wife.

Gen 16:3 Thus, after Abram had lived ten years in the land of Canaan, his wife Sarai took her maid, Hagar the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his concubine.

 

[BMZ]

Check it again, she was his concubine, not his wife.

Refer to the Jewish Holy Scriptures, according to the Masoretic text. And the wrod is ‘wife’ not concubine.

Perhaps you are referring through the Christians’ Old Testament.

 

[Valke2]

Certainly Hagar did not have the same rights as Sara. However, I think she would be classified as a wife. If for no other reason than it avoids issues of adultry. IN any event, Judaism generally recognizes that Hagar was Sarah’s maidservant and that she was given to him as a wife.

 

[MHalsey]

Certainly Hagar did not have the same rights as Sara. However, I think she would be classified as a wife. If for no other reason than it avoids issues of adultry. IN any event, Judaism generally recognizes that Hagar was Sarah’s maidservant and that she was given to him as a wife.

I mostly agree, however, this occurs before the ten commandments, so adultery should not be an issue. Also, Sarai gives her to Abram so that she (Sarai) may have children, not just Abram. If Hagar were considered Abram’s wife in the sense that Sarai was, then Sarai would not make that claim. Therefore, you can say Hagar was his wife as some translations do, but it is definitely not in the same context. Which is why I think concubine is a much clearer translation.

 

[MHalsey]

sigh

Again, for everyone’s info I must mention that the OP is just a troll. Please ignore him… :banghead:

Hey, I like trolling. I’d just rather it be in a boat on a lake.

Mark 1:17 Jesus said to them, “Come after me, and I will make you fishers of men.”

 

[NotWorthy]

There were two types of wives in the OT. One was as a partner, as Sarah was. The other was as a Master/Slave as Hagar would have been. I think Abraham would have been considered Hagar’s Bhaal, her master. Abraham would have been considered Sarah’s
husband (or husband as we know it today).

Unfortunately, both of those terms are translated into husband in English.

 

[Valke2]

I mostly agree, however, this occurs before the ten commandments, so adultery should not be an issue. Also, Sarai gives her to Abram so that she (Sarai) may have children, not just Abram. If Hagar were considered Abram’s wife in the sense that Sarai was, then Sarai would not make that claim. Therefore, you can say Hagar was his wife as some translations do, but it is definitely not in the same context. Which is why I think concubine is a much clearer translation.

It occurs before the Torah is given to Israel, true. But Jewish tradition believes Abraham kept the mitzvot anyway (don’t ask). As I said, Hagar did not have the same rights as Sara, I agree. Anyway, what Sara did was something that was not uncommon at the time and it is a custom no longer exists (for Judaism, anyway).

 

[LilyM]

It occurs before the Torah is given to Israel, true. But Jewish tradition believes Abraham kept the mitzvot anyway (don’t ask). As I said, Hagar did not have the same rights as Sara, I agree. Anyway, what Sara did was something that was not uncommon at the time and it is a custom no longer exists (for Judaism, anyway).

Not only did Hagar not have equal rights to Sara, Sara obviously had plenty of rights personally over Hagar. I don’t think wives were ever given rights over even unmarried concubines in this way, unless the woman was her own maid as well.

 

[hamba2han]

About the most difficult thing for a Muslim to understand about Christian beliefs is that Christians themselves simply do not believe the things that are clearly written in their own Bible.

Thus, a certain man’s ‘wife’ as reported in the Bible is apparently not his real wife and her son is apparently not his father’s real son.

In this day and age, if a man were to actually marry his maid… (how else can she become his wife??)… and later on have a child with her, would he not be held responsible for their well being?

Oops, I forgot… polygamy is forbidden in Christianity, isn’t it?

But then again, don’t you have such a thing as “palimony” nowadays and which, if I am not mistaken, is legally enforceable together with any related child-support?

Dear Christians, it really, really, REALLY is the best thing for the Creator Himself to determine whether or not a woman is someone’s wife, and the creations should not take it upon themselves to decide this according to whatever understanding they might have on the matter.

In other words, Christians really should believe what their own Bible is telling them about Hagar being the wife of Abraham (pbuh).

 

[eliasaph99]

About the most difficult thing for a Muslim to understand about Christian beliefs is that Christians themselves simply do not believe the things that are clearly written in their own Bible.

Thus, a certain man’s ‘wife’ as reported in the Bible is apparently not his real wife and her son is apparently not his father’s real son.

In this day and age, if a man were to actually marry his maid… (how else can she become his wife??)… and later on have a child with her, would he not be held responsible for their well being?

Oops, I forgot… polygamy is forbidden in Christianity, isn’t it?

But then again, don’t you have such a thing as “palimony” nowadays and which, if I am not mistaken, is legally enforceable together with any related child-support?

Dear Christians, it really, really, REALLY is the best thing for the Creator Himself to determine whether or not a woman is someone’s wife, and the creations should not take it upon themselves to decide this according to whatever understanding they might have on the matter.

In other words, Christians really should believe what their own Bible is telling them about Hagar being the wife of Abraham (pbuh).

Let me state this again. It’s specifically directed at our Muslim friends who are here.

You can’t trash the legitimacy of what the Bible has written within it and then appeal to the same source to prove a point you’re trying to make. It’s illogical.

 

[KarenNC]

** God says in the Bible "as for Ismael I have heard thee. Behold I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful and I will multiply him exceedingly Twelve princes shall he beget and I will make him a great nation (Gen: 21/18). **

Wrong citation. You mean Genesis 17:20

Genesis 17 (KJV)

18And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

 

[mark_a]

In other words, Christians really should believe what their own Bible is telling them about Hagar being the wife of Abraham (pbuh).

Do Muslims (or did Muhammed) believe that scriptures were corrupted?

 

[Valke2]

** God says in the Bible "as for Ismael I have heard thee. Behold I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful and I will multiply him exceedingly Twelve princes shall he beget and I will make him a great nation (Gen: 21/18). **

Wrong citation. You mean Genesis 17:20

Genesis 17 (KJV)

18And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Rashi says that the 12 princes mentioned in the verse were to disappear like clouds, citing proverbs 25:14 (Clouds and wind but no rain - so is a man who boasts with a false gift). The general interpetation is that by reading the blessings bestowed upon the son of the handmadian, how much more so were the blessings betstowed upon Isaac.

 

[LilyM]

About the most difficult thing for a Muslim to understand about Christian beliefs is that Christians themselves simply do not believe the things that are clearly written in their own Bible.

Thus, a certain man’s ‘wife’ as reported in the Bible is apparently not his real wife and her son is apparently not his father’s real son.

In this day and age, if a man were to actually marry his maid… (how else can she become his wife??)… and later on have a child with her, would he not be held responsible for their well being?

Oops, I forgot… polygamy is forbidden in Christianity, isn’t it?

But then again, don’t you have such a thing as “palimony” nowadays and which, if I am not mistaken, is legally enforceable together with any related child-support?

Dear Christians, it really, really, REALLY is the best thing for the Creator Himself to determine whether or not a woman is someone’s wife, and the creations should not take it upon themselves to decide this according to whatever understanding they might have on the matter.

In other words, Christians really should believe what their own Bible is telling them about Hagar being the wife of Abraham (pbuh).

We know exactly how Christ viewed marriage, thank you - he being God the Creator has some say in the matter. And he has told us no divorce nor polygamy. And considering how easy divorce is under Muslim law you have no right to be criticising Christians for divorcing!