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carol_marie
Guest
I think if your father thinks you were disrespectful then you were disrespectful. I am 36 and the longer I live the more I appreciate that my father is rarely, if ever, wrong. God Bless, CM <><
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Glutamine
Guest
Thanks to all who have posted. I have just finished apologizing to him. I said that my behavior was inappropriate and that I misunderstood his intentions and that I was wrong to speak out like that.
On the other hand, there were some things that he said about the situation that bothered me. One was that he didn’t remember what he said. When I told him, he said no…that’s not what he said…instead, he had said, “only manly men drink”. I wasn’t going to argue the point, so i just accepted it. He also said, that I left without saying goodbye to anyone, when in fact, I left and shook hands with all the men there. Apparently, that was more of the disrespectful aspect. There is no doubt in my mind concerning that.
Nonetheless, I have apologized. In my defense, I get a lot of flack for not drinking and I’ve certainly been called worse. I mistakenly presumed that this was another attack on me and my choice. Whether it was indeed one or not, I cannot say, but I feel better having apologized for my actions.
Again, thank you to everyone who shared their opinions.
On the other hand, there were some things that he said about the situation that bothered me. One was that he didn’t remember what he said. When I told him, he said no…that’s not what he said…instead, he had said, “only manly men drink”. I wasn’t going to argue the point, so i just accepted it. He also said, that I left without saying goodbye to anyone, when in fact, I left and shook hands with all the men there. Apparently, that was more of the disrespectful aspect. There is no doubt in my mind concerning that.
Nonetheless, I have apologized. In my defense, I get a lot of flack for not drinking and I’ve certainly been called worse. I mistakenly presumed that this was another attack on me and my choice. Whether it was indeed one or not, I cannot say, but I feel better having apologized for my actions.
Again, thank you to everyone who shared their opinions.
J
JCPhoenix
Guest
From what you related, taking it all at face value, what I see is that you had a bit of clash of cultures.
The culture you come from, based on your post and my own experience with the Vietnamese, is ultra-respectful, somewhat reserved and very peaceful. The culture you joined at that table sounds a lot like a lot of the people I grew up with (Thank God, not family!). They are all about “testing.” That comment about your orientation was designed no so much to offend but to test your reaction–he was looking for some banter from a potential new “buddy” and some would refer to this as “bonding behavior.”
I think you overreacted, and as far as being disrespectful…I really wouldnt’ say so. Overreaction though–definitely, given the apparent context. Don’t apologize to him, but next time, throw some teasing his way…and when he throws it back, just brush it off. If he taunts you about something, just wave him off with a “whatever man” or throw an insult back-- in a joking manner.
Maybe a little more understanding on both parts could go a long way towards uniting you all.
And FYI-- I tend to overreact, too, so please understand I’m giving my advice from my own experience.
The culture you come from, based on your post and my own experience with the Vietnamese, is ultra-respectful, somewhat reserved and very peaceful. The culture you joined at that table sounds a lot like a lot of the people I grew up with (Thank God, not family!). They are all about “testing.” That comment about your orientation was designed no so much to offend but to test your reaction–he was looking for some banter from a potential new “buddy” and some would refer to this as “bonding behavior.”
I think you overreacted, and as far as being disrespectful…I really wouldnt’ say so. Overreaction though–definitely, given the apparent context. Don’t apologize to him, but next time, throw some teasing his way…and when he throws it back, just brush it off. If he taunts you about something, just wave him off with a “whatever man” or throw an insult back-- in a joking manner.
Maybe a little more understanding on both parts could go a long way towards uniting you all.
And FYI-- I tend to overreact, too, so please understand I’m giving my advice from my own experience.
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triciafrancess
Guest
I don’t understand the part about leaving the table. To me, that would seem like an overreaction.
I am only saying the following because for me it’s the greatest challenge: Sometimes letting an insulting remark just hang in the air is the best retort of all.
Although I’m American, I come from a family in which confrontation is not acceptable. No matter how rude or demeaning someone is at a family get-together, I’ve learned just to change the subject. I have often received apologies later from family members who know they’ve been out of line. It sounds as though you are a sensitive, caring person and your cousin is a boorish jokester. You are probably the best judge as to whether you should let this drop or try to make amends. It seems as though apologizing to your father for making him uncomfortable wouldn’t be out of the question.
Love,
Tricia Frances
(P.S. I’m old, so this isn’t a problem unique to young people.)
I am only saying the following because for me it’s the greatest challenge: Sometimes letting an insulting remark just hang in the air is the best retort of all.
Although I’m American, I come from a family in which confrontation is not acceptable. No matter how rude or demeaning someone is at a family get-together, I’ve learned just to change the subject. I have often received apologies later from family members who know they’ve been out of line. It sounds as though you are a sensitive, caring person and your cousin is a boorish jokester. You are probably the best judge as to whether you should let this drop or try to make amends. It seems as though apologizing to your father for making him uncomfortable wouldn’t be out of the question.
Love,
Tricia Frances
(P.S. I’m old, so this isn’t a problem unique to young people.)
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RobNY
Guest
Being respectful doesn’t mean letting yourself get kicked around. If you let someone ‘bully’ you once, they’ll do it again. If you feel they are trying to attack you (verbally or whatnot) then you should stand up for yourself.
Its something you have to feel, there is no one answer. Friends tend to make jokes like that, but if you don’t know someone well then you have to tread carefully. Be careful to be explicit that you are joking and are not serious. I joke around all the time, but I try to make sure that I communicate that. A quick smile, a laugh, the proper body movement.
What do I think?
He probably wasn’t being serious, but its hard to tell.
I don’t know the whole Asian/Vietnamese respect dynamic though.
It seems that you didn’t snap, and if anything biting sarcasm would have been a bigger faux paux as far as respect for your elders goes. I don’t see it as disrespectful.
If anything, your uncle made a joke will no ill intent, and you responded to him gracefully and without ill intent. I don’t see a problem.
Its something you have to feel, there is no one answer. Friends tend to make jokes like that, but if you don’t know someone well then you have to tread carefully. Be careful to be explicit that you are joking and are not serious. I joke around all the time, but I try to make sure that I communicate that. A quick smile, a laugh, the proper body movement.
What do I think?
He probably wasn’t being serious, but its hard to tell.
I don’t know the whole Asian/Vietnamese respect dynamic though.
It seems that you didn’t snap, and if anything biting sarcasm would have been a bigger faux paux as far as respect for your elders goes. I don’t see it as disrespectful.
If anything, your uncle made a joke will no ill intent, and you responded to him gracefully and without ill intent. I don’t see a problem.
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Joanna
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It might be a culture clash thing. I think your father was embarrassed that you drew attention to yourself . I’m sure he wanted your cousin’s remarks to float off with the wind or hot air, as it were. I’ll bet that your father feared answering to other relatives.
You could apologize to your father if your reaction embarrassed him, but as to being disrespectful; I, too, think your answer was rather mild. Others who knew your cousin were prepared for his foolishness and could blow him off (but again they knew him, you didn’t.) You were there for pleasantries. I think you answered as best you could for having been taken by surprise and for being put on the spot at a public family gathering.
Perhaps, the old “count to ten maneuver” will help in the future. We live and learn, or, at least, the wise do. I read today, “If you want to learn to love better, you should start with a friend who you hate .” (Nikka - age 6) Not bad for 6! At over 35, I wonder about your cousin.
You could apologize to your father if your reaction embarrassed him, but as to being disrespectful; I, too, think your answer was rather mild. Others who knew your cousin were prepared for his foolishness and could blow him off (but again they knew him, you didn’t.) You were there for pleasantries. I think you answered as best you could for having been taken by surprise and for being put on the spot at a public family gathering.
Perhaps, the old “count to ten maneuver” will help in the future. We live and learn, or, at least, the wise do. I read today, “If you want to learn to love better, you should start with a friend who you hate .” (Nikka - age 6) Not bad for 6! At over 35, I wonder about your cousin.
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La_Chiara
Guest
I think you were justified in saying what you said and in handling it they way you did. At 23, you are just coming to terms with how you differ from your father. It will be many years before you are comfortable being who you are when that differs from what your father would do. Many people struggle for much of their adult lives when their parents don’t approve of their conduct. Unfortunately, in many families the code of conduct is oppressive and demands people tolerate behavior that is abusive (or at least unkind)–all in the name of family unity or respect for parents. Could you have handled it better? Sure, if you had forewarning. None of us react ideally when confronted with unexpectedly boorish behavior. I personally don’t think you needed to apologize to either your father or the offensive relative, though that was certainly magnanimous of you to do so. (I think the rude relative owed you an apology, though anyone who could act as he did, is probably incapable of apologizing.) I don’t criticize you at all for standing up for yourself in the way you did. You might want to consider how you would react if something similar should happen in the future, so next time you will be at the ready.
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Glutamine
Guest
La Chiara:
I have to remind myself that whatever my experiences I must endure in this life is nothing compared to what Jesus went through. So I’m reminded that from now on, I’m not going to speak out like that again. Rather, if someone were to ask my opinion, then I would voice my opinions.
Yes. Well, in the past, when these kind of situations come up, I have just taken the abuse that people put forth and then leave. I don’t know why I overreacted the way I did in this occasion. The initial shock of it was most likely what caused my reaction. I mean, I expect this from people my age but coming from an adult such as he, it kind of threw me off. Nonetheless, should this situation ever occur again, I will just remain silent.
I have to remind myself that whatever my experiences I must endure in this life is nothing compared to what Jesus went through. So I’m reminded that from now on, I’m not going to speak out like that again. Rather, if someone were to ask my opinion, then I would voice my opinions.
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AHMFan
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Just my 2 cents worth… I would have said the same thing, if not more intense… people like that make me nuts…
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darcee
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My grandmother used to tell me that the dignity you purchase yourself when you appoligize to someone who feels they have been wronged by you is well worth the cost in pride.
I think you did the right thing. Congratulations.
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I think you did the right thing. Congratulations.
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AHMFan
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-D You are right of course, but boy does pride ever get the better of me…
Still working on that one… Can’t you tell by my posts…
Tanya
Still working on that one… Can’t you tell by my posts…Tanya
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Joanna
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I’m proud of you for the conclusions you have drawn from this experience.
When Jesus was struck by a temple guard when questioned before Annas, Jesus answered, "If I have spoken wrongly, testify to the wrong: but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?
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darcee
Guest
AHMFan said:-D You are right of course, but boy does pride ever get the better of me…
Tanya
You know I have a long way to go too
-D
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dhgray
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My mother use to say, “It is better to keep your mouth shout and let other think you are a fool than to open your mouth and prove them right.”
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CatholicSamurai
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I would agree with DHGRAY. Asian culture has this high demand on respecting elders. Or so that’s how I see it. By the way, I too am Asian so I can relate to a point. It doesn’t matter whether they’re right or wrong, elders need to be respected. My cousin and I swore never to drink nor smoke. When something like this situation happens, we just walk away… sometimes give a smart alleck remark and walk away. But never to a point that we would raise our voice.
I would apologize to this uncle but not change my stance on drinking. Would I be the fool? Perhaps. But in a Christian sense on a spiritual level, I am the better man for practicing humility.
I would apologize to this uncle but not change my stance on drinking. Would I be the fool? Perhaps. But in a Christian sense on a spiritual level, I am the better man for practicing humility.
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Jason_Hurd
Guest
I’m not sure if some people here realise this, but there are very few things a man can say to another man that are as insulting as what was said to Glutamine. It’s all very well to say he should swallow his pride, apologise, respect his elders, blah blah blah, but the fact is the older relative was way out of line to make the remark in the first place. Imagine how you would feel if someone insulted your masculinity (or femininity, for that matter) in front of your entire family, just expecting you to sit there and take it. I realise Christ suffered much worse than this for our sakes, but bullying and insulting behavior should not be tolerated just because of religious scruples or societal concerns. This young man’s father should have challenged the relative’s remark and defended his son. Are people to lie down and let others spit on them figuratively just because “that’s the culture”? I hope not!
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Philthy
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Jason - it appears that you too are relatively young! People like to think that wisdom comes with time but in reality in comes from experience - which takes time.
"but the fact is the older relative was way out of line to make the remark in the first place." You are ignoring motive when you make this statement - and motive matters. What if he meant good by it? What if he was simply trying to “break the ice”? As was said by several people in the thread he was just “bustin chops” - it’s such a ridiculous statement to make, it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously.
**"but bullying and insulting behavior should not be tolerated just because of religious scruples …Are people to lie down and let others spit on them figuratively just because “that’s the culture”
**
Gird your loins boy! You will face much greater than this in life and be expected to respond with love and tolerance if you wish to follow our Lord…
“Consider how he endured such opposition from sinners in order that you may not grow weary and lose heart” 2Corinthians 4:5
"but the fact is the older relative was way out of line to make the remark in the first place." You are ignoring motive when you make this statement - and motive matters. What if he meant good by it? What if he was simply trying to “break the ice”? As was said by several people in the thread he was just “bustin chops” - it’s such a ridiculous statement to make, it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously.
**"but bullying and insulting behavior should not be tolerated just because of religious scruples …Are people to lie down and let others spit on them figuratively just because “that’s the culture”
**
Gird your loins boy! You will face much greater than this in life and be expected to respond with love and tolerance if you wish to follow our Lord…
“Consider how he endured such opposition from sinners in order that you may not grow weary and lose heart” 2Corinthians 4:5
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Jason_Hurd
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Actually, I was forty-one my last birthday and have seen more things and had more “experience” than I care to recount. I stand by my opinion that the older relative was rude and boorish. I don’t say that Glutamine was correct in his actions, but responding with love and tolerance does not mean(to me, at any rate)allowing someone to insult me in front of my loved ones and sitting in silence out of some misplaced “respect”.
And I’d rather not be addressed as “boy”, if you don’t mind!
And I’d rather not be addressed as “boy”, if you don’t mind!
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Glutamine
Guest
This is a pretty much closed issue for me, although points of view are still welcome. I really do appreciate everyone who saw my side of things, but at the same time, I also very much welcomed the other opinions.
As I view it,
As I view it,
- A ridiculous/out of line/boorish/rude/inappropriate comment was made about me concerning a personal decision of mine.
- Whether the comment was intended as an ice-breaker or had ill-intent/derisiveness in it, no one can say (other than God and that person)…but statement number 1 is still the truth
- My reaction was a defensive one; my words and intentions were, to put it simply, say something that my relative could not reply to nor could he argue against
- The question was not about right or wrong. It is, was I disrespectful. Coming from my culture, I can see how it would be. Coming from an American culture, i guess it depends on the person you ask.
- Did I lose anything by apologizing? No. I told him, if my action or words offended him, then I am sorry. He offered no such words. Whether that is a result of who he is or whether older people don’t apologize to younger ones (in my culture), i cannot say…most likely the latter. His words were we are family. It’s good that you apologized.
- How do i feel about the whole situation? Personally, it was never my intention to be disrespectful. If any of my relatives want to think badly of me for this incident, then that is their right. Just to put things into perspective, I have never once spoken back on any occasion before this…even when negative things were said about me.
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Philthy
Guest
jason-
I hope you weren’t offended - I meant no offense. Gee, kinda sounds like we’ve gotten ourselves into the same situation as the original thread! I’ll just say “Im sorry - please forgive me” and maybe we can save everyone the trouble of another thread!
Philthy
I hope you weren’t offended - I meant no offense.
Gee, kinda sounds like we’ve gotten ourselves into the same situation as the original thread! I’ll just say “Im sorry - please forgive me” and maybe we can save everyone the trouble of another thread!Philthy
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