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mattp0625
Guest
Which other names ?
Was inspired scripture ALREADY well known before the council compiled the bible?
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adf417
Guest
Kliska I hope you are not referring to me. I found nothing uncharitable in your responses. I have never found anything uncharitable in your responses.
Peace!!!
A
adf417
Guest
Ben is there any reason why you did not answer the other question I asked the other poster? It may help put your response in context for me. Butting into a conversation and answering only what you are comfortable with seems a little rude in my opinion.
Peace!!!
C
commenter
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
Hi Ben.
Jesus left us a Church(singular), not a bible.
He could have just dropped millions of bibles from the sky, but chose not to.
So, the Church is a extremely vital conduit here, would you at least agree with that much?
And since no rational and informed person would claim said Church was Lutheran or Baptist or any other denomination, I think it’s safe to say the bible is a “Catholic book”, humanely speaking anyway. We know the Spirit is the one who inspired it, but there was obviously a human process involved and there were no protestants in that age determining anything.
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benhur
Guest
HI a,Ben is there any reason why you did not answer the other question I asked the other poster? It may help put your response in context for me. Butting into a conversation and answering only what you are comfortable with seems a little rude in my opinion.
Peace!!!
Sorry you took me as rude, and only answering what was comfortable, or that I butted in.
Feel free to read my posts and you will see I acknowledged “Catholic” bishops attended the council , (and that presided over churches that formed the tradition on canon before that).
So yes, they were Catholic bishops, to answer you directly, who voted for canon at said council.
My apologies .
Blessings
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benhur
Guest
Hi mat,
First just another Jewish sect, then “Christian”, then people of the Way, then Catholic/Universal.
Blessings
B
benhur
Guest
Hi c,I’ll take that compliment.
No further brilliant ideas at the moment.
I will try to remember that all it takes is a compliment to stop any further brilliant ideas from coming forth from you !
Thanks for the timely humor.
Blessings
M
mattp0625
Guest
When and where did the people who were Christian but not Catholic exist ?
Surely you don’t mean the Cathars or Waldensians
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benhur
Guest
Hi La,
Welllll, He left us a Church and many gifts of guidance and for sure, Writ being the superlative norm for all: for the mature and the babe, for the teacher, and the bishop, and the prophet.
You could also say it was/is a Jewish book.
Of course it was also a Catholic/Universal book, before any sectarianism would lead some (Vatican II) to discern the wisdom of being more “ecumenical” about it
Blessings
B
benhur
Guest
Hi mat,
Not sure about the question. I mean a rose is sweet smelling by any name. .So from the beginning we have had sweet smelling believers , just not sure when they began taking on the name “Catholic”, that Ignatius first uses around 107 ad. Of course the church began 70 years earlier. Writ has nor record of "catholic’ , all the way up to Revelation written around 100 ad.
Again the first church was Jewish.
Blessings
PS -no did not mean the two groups you mentioned. That is a thousand years later.
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mattp0625
Guest
You may consider pursuing those details.
Ignatius was the third bishop of Antioch, where the original Christians gathered from Jerusalem and other places.
The second bishop at Antioch was Evodius who died 67 AD.
The first bishop at Antioch? Peter the Apostle who then went to Rome as did Paul.
There is not a gap there.
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benhur
Guest
Hi m,
What gap or lack thereof? Succession , or from Jew to Gentile church ?
Blessings
M
mattp0625
Guest
The Constantine narrative is a myth. The Catholic Church didn’t arise out of paganism and they didn’t wait for Constantine.
It is directly traceable to the bishops at Antioch and Rome from the time of Peter and Paul.
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rcwitness
Guest
Its telling that the earliest Canon list of the whole bible that is used by the Church is apparently from Pope St. Damasus. Its as though list were popping up here and there, until finally a Pope gave a judgement. And St Athanasius’ list of the New Testament was prior to this, and St Damasus helped re-establish him to bishop. Its possible there was private discussions between them.
St Augustine considered the Canon already closed at his synods, which confirmed the list.
I believe the Orthodox Church did not fully accept Revelations for a very long time after this.
St Augustine considered the Canon already closed at his synods, which confirmed the list.
I believe the Orthodox Church did not fully accept Revelations for a very long time after this.
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
Greetings.
Not sure what denomination you are, but if certain members went off the deep end and started teaching weird doctrines, you and your church leaders would probably label those people as heretics and rightly expel them from the congregation unless they cease and desisted.
And then said heretics might ultimately label you guys as “sectarians”.
See how that works? The Catholic church, or any Church or institution, should never make any apologies for defending Truth, even if it causes separation.
No qualms whatsoever with labeling the OT as a Jewish book, humanely speaking. Technically it is and I don’t even like the "Old “Testament” label for that because they find it insulting. I wish it were called “previous revelation” or something to that effect.
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
They claim to acknowledge the first 7 councils, but if that were entirely true, they would have the exact same canon as us.
I love the Orthodox, they are beautiful in liturgy and practice, but honestly it’s just a lesser form of protestantism.
C
commenter
Guest
I see 3 possible scenarios:
Now look at the (brief!) finished product (NT canon), with pretty near unanimity. Not a bible scholar, but as a sociologist, I would say #1, and #2, above are plausible. #3 is not.
Did you ever see an old movie, where a group of people who hardly know each other, suddenly all break out harmonizing into the same song, interacting with intricate dance moves? Fun to watch, but realistic?
- Catholic view - A powerful Magisterium determined, first, that there should be a New Testament (a step often forgotten); determined on a short canon, and mandated it; decided no more books may be added.
- Secular view - same thing. The only difference is they would point out a political motive for all those steps, and say the Magisterium crushed its opponents, which might equally claim to be followers of Christ, and their equally valid scriptures.
- Protestant view - A group of Christians came together, with no central authority, and by consensus declared they had a right to creat a NT; chose an amazingly short canon, and closed the canon; and by consensus people and communities voluntarily gave up some of their beloved scriptures, and spontaneously came to near unanimity on more or less the same canon over the years. And almost everyone voluntarily got on board with that same canon, giving up their own collections, spontaneously, with no mandates, no Magisterium yet.
Now look at the (brief!) finished product (NT canon), with pretty near unanimity. Not a bible scholar, but as a sociologist, I would say #1, and #2, above are plausible. #3 is not.
Did you ever see an old movie, where a group of people who hardly know each other, suddenly all break out harmonizing into the same song, interacting with intricate dance moves? Fun to watch, but realistic?
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rcwitness
Guest
I love the Protestants, and there is great Catholic faith within them.
It’s His Holy Spirit that inspires many. And I get the impression the concept of God’s Sovereignty is seen as the means which brought the Church the Canon of Scripture.
To that I say, amen! But who was the wise and faithful steward (singular) when the Canon was fixed? I acknowledge Pope St Damasus as the key holder at this significant event and process.
It was obviously handed down to him in ways. He may have merely received what was advised before him at council fellowship with bishops. But a verdict was necessary. And SS, by its nature, demands this verdict even more than Scripture, Magisterium and Tradition. Yet the verdict came about through the latter.
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adf417
Guest
Thank you for acknowledging this ben and if more non-Catholics acknowledged this, Christianity, IMO, would begin to look much differently to non Christian religions. It is the achilles heel of Christianity, IMO
Peace!!!
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