Was it a Mortal Sin?

[TLM08]

Liguori’s Scrupulous Anonymous November 2005 regarding “full consent of the will”…

For full consent to have been given, the sinful action has to be chosen precisely BECAUSE it is sinful, or the person doesn’t care that the action is sinful.

Does this mean that if we hate our sins involving grave matter, but commit them anyway out of weakness, that our sin is considered venial? By reading this, who in their right mind would ever commit a mortal sin?

mission.liguori.org/newsletters/pdf_archive/november2005sa_web.pdf

 

[ForwardProgress]

Let’s use everyone’s favorite, MB, as an example.

If I plan on coming home after work, putting on some porn, and having an all night festival, I have given full consent.

If I have impulses that I fight and fight and fight and fight and have no other outlet for, and i’m streesed out at work, and I pray the rosary every day, and I don’t look at porn, lust after women, and I give in to an old habit 15 years in the making while thinking of nothing but ‘let’s get it over with’ and not really getting much or any true pleasure out of it, and my wife is refusing any sexual advances, I don’t think I have had full consent.

 

[FickleFreckled]

Mostly I think it falls under the category of “doesn’t care and does it anyway.” Temptation can really cloud the conscience; our weakness can make us momentarily weak enough to want to have / do whatever it is more than we want to avoid the sin. We rationalize it and at that moment, literally don’t care very much. Sinful sexual situations or thoughts are good examples. So is malicious gossip, which some people really have trouble resisting.

 

[thistle]

Let’s use everyone’s favorite, MB, as an example.

If I plan on coming home after work, putting on some porn, and having an all night festival, I have given full consent.

If I have impulses that I fight and fight and fight and fight and have no other outlet for, and i’m streesed out at work, and I pray the rosary every day, and I don’t look at porn, lust after women, and I give in to an old habit 15 years in the making while thinking of nothing but ‘let’s get it over with’ and not really getting much or any true pleasure out of it, and my wife is refusing any sexual advances, I don’t think I have had full consent.

I don’t agree with you. Full consent simply means you deliberately commit an act you know to be gravely sinful.

 

[ForwardProgress]

I don’t agree with you. Full consent simply means you deliberately commit an act you know to be gravely sinful.

We can agree to disagree then, I have discussed this very scenario with 5 different priests. I trust their advice more than yours, as they deal with this on a daily basis.

 

[06convert]

Here is some reading for you:

catholic.com/library/Mortal_Sin.asp

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_02121984_reconciliatio-et-paenitentia_en.html

Bascially, for something to be a mortal sin:

A. It has to be a violation of one of God’s commandments, “thou shall not kill, etc.”

B. You have to be aware that it’s a mortal sin. If you commited the sin, but didn’t realize it was a mortal sin, then it was just venial for you (lucky you).

C. You have to consent and give your full will to the sin. If you accidentally kill someone, it’s not a mortal sin.

 

[Mijoy2]

We can agree to disagree then, I have discussed this very scenario with 5 different priests. I trust their advice more than yours, as they deal with this on a daily basis.

This has been my experience also. I once, as I was about to confess a sin, proceeded with the comment “I don’t know if this sin is mortal of not but…”. He remarked, “If you commited a mortal sin, you would know it”.

I’ve had this experience also on other occasions. Once when I missed Mass (a holy day of obligation where I intended to go but it never worked out. However I could have made it work had I tried harder), I confessed this sin and commented how I had abstained from the Eucharist since. The Priest strongly discouraged my abstaining from the Eucharist because of the graces I was missing.

I have recieved differing advice from priests then from some well intentioned people in these forums. However I seem to have trusted thepeople in these forums more. Possibly because of the mysterious anonymity of these people. Yet the advice on such matters that I get from some people on these forums often seem hard and without compassion.

Maybe the lesson is to put more trust in your local parish priest. At least as a priority and take it from there. I seem to have more love of God and less distain when I do.

 

[Genesis315]

As St. Paul says, ultimately God is our judge, we don’t even judge ourselves–He knows even better than we do whether or not we are mortally culpable–only He can penetrate our hearts without risk of deception or delusion. We are too likely to try and rationalize or justify our failings, failing to acknowledge our own guilt. So don’t even try to judge yourself–if you commit a grave sin, be sorry for it, pray for mercy, confess it, and do penance.

(it also bears pointing out that we are to abstain from Communion if we are conscience of any grave sin, whether it is mortal or not–see the instructions in tha back of all missalettes).

 

[teachccd]

I don’t agree with you. Full consent simply means you deliberately commit an act you know to be gravely sinful.

Now you have to unpack the word “deliberate”. That means that you are doing something on purpose or in spite of the consequences. What the previous poster mentioned exhibits a roadblock to the rational thinking required to attain this. Extreme temptation and our combined weakness can lessen the culpability of our giving a deliberate or full consent of the will. I’ve committed a grave action whereby while I am committing it I am asking God why I am so stupid and begin my contrition almost immediately. That is human weakness and not one who says,“Sorry God, I know that this will separate us but I choose “it” over you.” And there are those who can and will do this. That is mortal sin…teachccd

 

[Genesis315]

B. You have to be aware that it’s a mortal sin. If you commited the sin, but didn’t realize it was a mortal sin, then it was just venial for you (lucky you).

This of course presumes good faith. If someone doesn’t know through willfull or negligent ignorance, despite the fact that the law is written on all our hearts, then that person may still be in a state of mortal sin.

That being said, as I mentioned above, it’s really a vain exercise to try and jusge whether or not we or another person is mortally guilty. The best thing to do is let God do the judging and get to confession.

 

[Mijoy2]

Now you have to unpack the word “deliberate”. That means that you are doing something on purpose or in spite of the consequences. What the previous poster mentioned exhibits a roadblock to the rational thinking required to attain this. Extreme temptation and our combined weakness can lessen the culpability of our giving a deliberate or full consent of the will. I’ve committed a grave action whereby while I am committing it I am asking God why I am so stupid and begin my contrition almost immediately. That is human weakness and not one who says,“Sorry God, I know that this will separate us but I choose “it” over you.” And there are those who can and will do this. That is mortal sin…teachccd

Thank you, well stated.

 

[teachccd]

As St. Paul says, ultimately God is our judge, we don’t even judge ourselves–He knows even better than we do whether or not we are mortally culpable–only He can penetrate our hearts without risk of deception or delusion. We are too likely to try and rationalize or justify our failings, failing to acknowledge our own guilt. So don’t even try to judge yourself–if you commit a grave sin, be sorry for it, pray for mercy, confess it, and do penance.

That is very true and that is why I visit the Sacrament of Reconciliation regularly. But we also must not fall into the trap that everything we do is a mortal sin. Satan would love nothing more than to have us in the state of despair whereby we believe that we can never please God and give up.

Ultimately God is our judge but we do know ourselves if we can be completely honest and we know our relationship with God. We do know if we fell out of pure weakness and extreme temptation or if we just indulged in a behavior to purposely put a lesser pleasure before God. We can discern our actions to a point and not fall into scrupulosity where we loose the sense of God’s mercy.

God created us to live with Him for all eternity. That is His purpose and intention for us. If we recognize His infinite love and forgiveness then even in those times of failure we can turn to Him and say how sorry we are. And that is why Christ died for us and left us this sacrament of peace…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

Thank you, well stated.

You’re welcome! God Bless…

 

[thistle]

Now you have to unpack the word “deliberate”. That means that you are doing something on purpose or in spite of the consequences. What the previous poster mentioned exhibits a roadblock to the rational thinking required to attain this. Extreme temptation and our combined weakness can lessen the culpability of our giving a deliberate or full consent of the will. I’ve committed a grave action whereby while I am committing it I am asking God why I am so stupid and begin my contrition almost immediately. That is human weakness and not one who says,“Sorry God, I know that this will separate us but I choose “it” over you.” And there are those who can and will do this. That is mortal sin…teachccd

Again I don’t agree. Culpability can only be reduced by a person being forced to commit a sin (e.g. threatened by gun or other coercive means), mental incapacity, or in some cases addiction.
Extreme temptation and weakness do not reduce culpability. These are the reasons all of us commit sin.

 

[ForwardProgress]

But not always mortal sin, which is what the original question is about. Sounds like you are outnumbered!

Again, you should go with your conscience on this one. If it’s a mortal sin for you, then it is.

 

[TLM08]

Again, the Liguori newsletter states:

"For full consent to have been given, the sinful action has to be chosen precisely BECAUSE it is sinful, or the person doesn’t care that the action is sinful."

For example:

1. I feel like offending God today!

Or…

1. I don’t care if it is a sin, I am going to do it anyway!

This seems to be the criteria regarding full consent.

 

[thistle]

But not always mortal sin, which is what the original question is about. Sounds like you are outnumbered!

Again, you should go with your conscience on this one. If it’s a mortal sin for you, then it is.

When there is ever doubt if you have committed a mortal sin it is always better to assume you have than not otherwise you could end up committing a further mortal sin by receiving Communion so Confession should be the priority and the priest will tell you.

 

[YipYupYep]

Again I don’t agree. Culpability can only be reduced by a person being forced to commit a sin (e.g. threatened by gun or other coercive means), mental incapacity, or in some cases addiction.
Extreme temptation and weakness do not reduce culpability. These are the reasons all of us commit sin.

Yes, all true, but, I don’t think that extreme temptation and weakness should be put together into the same thought. One is, well, extreme and the other is not. Different worlds. I seriously doubt the the OP was referring to murder or rape.

Furthermore, I would put addiction in the front of the list, not at the the end. Addiction, innate ability to fight the fight and circumstances are causes for mitigation.

I would seem to me that the sin would be mitigated to the degree of the individuals sincerity and actual ability to fight. In the extreme, just ask a crack head if they are only looking for a reason to sin by name tagging it addiction.