Was Jesus a Catholic?

[farpinho]

That would be like asking if YHWH is a Jew

 

[austenbosten]

That would be like asking if YHWH is a Jew

Exxxxxxactly!

 

[Charlemagne_II]

autenbosten

Jesus was a Jew. There’s no way Jesus could have been a Catholic, because the Catholic Church had not been founded yet. If Jesus was a Catholic, answer this.

There is a way Jesus could have been a Catholic though he was raised as a Jew: he created a new covenant, and on behalf of us all as a man he offered himself as a sacrificial offering to the Father for our sins. That is what priests do, they offer sacrifice.
**
Why was nothing mention in the Bible about Jesus being the first Catholic?**

The word “Catholic” means universal. Jesus came to establish a universal covenant. This idea permeates the New Testament, whereas it is to be found nowhere in the Old Testament.

Why did the Bible portray Jesus as a Jewish rabbi?

Rabbi is the Jewish term for teacher. Jesus was a teacher.
**
Who was the Pope if Jesus was a Catholic?**

Jesus established the papacy, giving the key to the kingdom to Peter and his successors. Read your Bible.

How can God be a follower of His own Faith that worships Him?

Jesus, since he is Truth, followed the true faith he founded. He practiced what he preached. Prove that he didn’t.

How can Jesus (who was perfect) be able to fulfil the sacraments when he never married or became a Catholic priest?

He instituted and sanctified all the sacraments. A priest offers sacrifice. Jesus offered the sacrifice of himself at the Last Supper, and again on the cross. Paul refers to him as the High Priest. “He (Jesus) had to be made like His brethren in all things, that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people” (Hebrews: 2:17)

 

[marty1818]

I think this article brings up a good point:
americancatholic.org/Messenger/Sep2010/Wiseman.asp#top

To say that Jesus died Jewish may be too simple; he saw himself as bringing Judaism to a new level. Even so, the earliest Christians continued to frequent the Temple in Jerusalem (Acts 3:1-26 and 5:42).

 

[ConstantineTG]

Jesus was baptised, and he gave Himself Holy Communion, and He was the first priest, and He definitely believes in the communion of saints, and He was the founder of the Catholic Church. He was a Jew who reformed His faith to defintely become Catholic.

First, the baptism that Jesus received from John the Baptist is a Jewish baptism, not a Christian one. Yes, baptisms are done for Jewish people, more precisely non-Jewish people who need the ritual bath as a process of becoming Jewish. This concept is not original to Christians.

Second, Jesus did not give himself Communion. I think the Biblical account was pretty clear that he broke the bread and gave it to his Apostles.

Jesus did not reform the faith, he fulfilled the law and the prophesies.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Constantine

Second, Jesus did not give himself Communion. I think the Biblical account was pretty clear that he broke the bread and gave it to his Apostles.

He instituted the Eucharist at that moment. If he was still a Jew, why was he instituting Catholic Sacraments?

Jesus did not reform the faith, he fulfilled the law and the prophesies.

By fullfilling the law and the prophecies he brought an end to the old covenant and began a new one that would be universal (catholic).

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Anyone who knows how much the early Christians were persecuted by Paul and the Temple authorities has to know that what Peter and the apostles taught was certainly not Judaism as the Jews knew it.

 

[ccmnxc]

For the first several decades, Christianity, known as The Way at the time, was still considered to be a sect of Judaism. Not until after the destruction of the Temple did Christianity become an entity of its own. So, I’m gonna have to go with Jewish.
Though if you want to go deeper, you asked if He WAS Catholic. I’d have to say no. If you asked if He is currently Catholic (I know He transcends time and all, but just play along) then my answer could possibly be different.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Jesus was a Jew. There’s no way Jesus could have been a Catholic, because the Catholic Church had not been founded yet. If Jesus was a Catholic, answer this.

• Why was nothing mention in the Bible about Jesus being the first Catholic?
• Why did the Bible portray Jesus as a Jewish rabbi?
• Who was the Pope if Jesus was a Catholic?
• How can God be a follower of His own Faith that worships Him?
• How can Jesus (who was perfect) be able to fulfil the sacraments when he never married or became a Catholic priest?

If Christ was a Catholic, then He was never the Messiah, because the Messiah had to be Jewish according to the Tanahk. Jesus was Jewish and was not a Catholic, even though Jesus founded the Catholic Faith. The same way God the Father founded the Jewish Faith, but HaShem is not a Jew. He is God.

The term " Catholic " was not used until about a hundred years after the Resurrection of Jesus. At first the followers of Jesus were known just as his followers but by the time of Peter’s death they were known as " Christians, " at least in Rome. Since Jesus founded the church, which later came to be called " Catholic, " you could call Jesus the " first " Catholic in the sense that he was the Head or Founder. Certainly he never called himself that, nor did he call himself " christian. " He did however command Peter to lead his church and for him and Apostles to spread it throughout all the world. I think you are worried about semantics which mean nothing substantial. Yes Jesus was a Jew of the line of David and also the Messiah. He told his fellow Jews that He was the Son of God and He was establishing a new convent, one which was to complete the Law and the Prophets. Some Jews followed, all the Apostles were Jews, and certainly most of the original desciples. Jesus founded his new church at the command of the Father, so there is no problem there. Jesus was a Jewish man and also God, he had a human nature and a Divine Nature, as the Second Person of the Trinity. Jesus the man was the Son of God. Have you read the O.T. which foretold the coming of the Christ and the N.T. which shows the fulfillment of these prophesies? It would be best to read a Catholic Bible.

Your first question is answered by Catholic Tradition and the Teaching of the Church. You must realize that Tradition came at least a hundred years before the Bible and it wasn’t until the Council of Trent that all the Cannon of the Bible was approved. The Bible is a source of Truth for Catholics also,but always Tradition and the Teaching of the Church in its Magisterium are the highest and final authorities. St John told us he could not record all that Jesus said and did and Jesus said to the Apostles " …I will be with you until the end…and the Spirit will teach you all things…" ( or similar words). So while the Bible does contain the Word of God, it does not contain all that Jesus said and taught. Nor does it contain the Faith in its fullest form, that can only be determined by Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church.

Your second question. The Bible didn’t portray Jesus as a Jewish Rabbi. He definitely was Jewish. It was the people who proclaimed him Rabbi and called him Rabbi. The Jewish leaders certainly did not. The Jewish leaders regarded him as an enemy. Futhermore, he attended no rabbinical school. At least there is no history of such a thing. You must realize that the Jewish people would never have listened to him had he not been Jewish. Remember the woman at the well, didn’t she address him as a Jewish man?

Third question. While Jesus was on this earth, there was no Pope. But just before Jesus assended into heaven he appointed Peter to lead his Church and told him the “…gates of hell would not prevail against it…” I am not sure when the title " Pope " came to be applied to those elected to replace Peter but it appears to have been in use by the fourth century newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm.

Fourth question. Really doesn’t make sense. Certainly Christ was the founder in the sense he taught the Apostles and his disciples what he wanted them to do and teach, in that he gave them their mission. But technically, the Church was not founded until the coming of the Holy Spirit,because until then none of the Sacraments were performed with the exception of the Last Supper, when all the Apostles received the body and blood of Chirst in anticipation of his death. So the question of Christ being a follower of the Faith he founded does not arise. ( That is just my opinion, you might ask someone on Catholic Answers, you can call in and ask ( go to the Home Page and find directions).

Fifth question. Remember that Christ was God, the Sacraments are a great gift of God, it is the means by which He has chosen to pass on His grace and all the sacraments were found incipiently in the O.T. For example, the unleavend bread and the manna in the desert forshadow the Eucharist.

Why don’t you sign up for RICA, some of your questions may be answered there. And you can always read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

 

[Ryan_Hewett]

What does Jesus say about this?
Jesus, in prayer to his Father, Our Creator, he says recorded for us at John 17:17
“Sanctify them by means of truth, your word is truth.”
Jesus was a reader of God’s word.
An encourager and leader of all becoming students of His Father’s written word to us. Matthew 28:19,20; John 17:3; John 17:17

The Bible’s Viewpoint

Is It Appropriate to Pray to “Saints”?

Marie and Theresa considered themselves to be “good Catholics.” Both believed in “saints.” Marie believed that she could pray to them for help. Theresa regularly prayed to the patron “saint” of her home village. She also prayed to the “saint” after whom she was named.

LIKE Marie and Theresa, millions of people around the world pray to their “saints” to invoke a blessing. According to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, “the saints intercede for men,” and “it is ‘good and useful’ to invoke them to obtain . . . benefits from God.”
How, though, does God view the matter? Is it acceptable to him that we pray to “saints” to intercede in our behalf? Consider what the Bible says.
Should We Invoke “Saints”?
In the Bible, the Greek word rendered “saint” in some versions means “holy one.” However, there is no mention in the Bible of any faithful worshipper of God praying to a “saint.” Why is that? The New Catholic Encyclopedia states that it was only “by the 3rd century [that] the efficacy of intercession of the saints was clearly recognized.” That was some 200 years after Christ died. The teaching, therefore, did not originate with Jesus and the inspired Bible writers who documented his ministry. The reason?
The Bible consistently teaches that we should pray only to God, doing so in the name of Jesus Christ. “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life,” Jesus said. “No one can come to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6, Catholic Jerusalem Bible) Those unambiguous words harmonize with Jesus’ teaching recorded at Matthew 6:9-13. While explaining the subject of prayer, Jesus said to his followers: “You must pray, then, this way: Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. . . .” (Matthew 6:9) Clearly, our heavenly Father is the only one to whom we should address our prayers. This truth rests on a fundamental Bible principle.
Prayer—An Act of Worship
“Prayer,” says The World Book Encyclopedia, “refers to reverent words and thoughts directed toward God, gods, goddesses, or other objects of worship. . . . Prayer is an important form of worship in nearly all the religions in the world.” (Italics ours.) Ask yourself, ‘Is it proper to bend our knees in worshipful prayer to anyone other than our Creator and Life-Giver?’ (Psalm 36:9) “The true worshipers,” said Jesus, “will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.” (John 4:23) The Bible also states that our Creator requires our “exclusive devotion.”—Deuteronomy 4:24; 6:15.
Consider the example of the Christian apostle John. After receiving the spectacular visions recorded in the Bible book of Revelation, the awestruck apostle “fell down to worship before the feet of the angel” who had shown him these things. How did the angel respond? “Be careful!” he said. “Do not do that! All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers . . . Worship God.” (Revelation 22:8, 9) Yes, once again the Bible emphasizes that we should worship only Jehovah God.
In harmony with the foregoing, God alone is called the “Hearer of prayer.” (Psalm 65:2) Moreover, as the Almighty, he alone has the authority, knowledge, and power to answer any legitimate request sought through prayer. (Job 33:4) Even Jesus Christ, by his own admission, has limitations. (Matthew 20:23; 24:36) That said, however, Jesus Christ has been given great authority, including the responsibility of serving as mankind’s Intercessor.
A Sympathetic Intercessor
Of Jesus the Bible says: “He is able also to save completely those who are approaching God through him, because he is always alive to plead for them.” (Hebrews 7:25) In other words, Jesus can serve as the sympathetic Intercessor in behalf of those who ‘approach God through him.’ This does not mean that we should pray to Jesus and that he will forward our prayer on, as it were. Rather, it means that we pray to God in the name of Jesus, thus acknowledging his authority. Why is Jesus the perfect Intercessor?
For one thing, Jesus experienced life as a human, which enabled him to appreciate more fully the sufferings of others. (John 11:32-35) For another, he demonstrated his love for people by healing the sick, raising the dead, and providing spiritual sustenance to all who came to him. (Matthew 15:29, 30; Luke 9:11-17) He even forgave sins. (Luke 5:24) This gives us confidence, for if we sin, “we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one.”—1 John 2:1.
Jesus’ love and compassion are qualities we should try to imitate. True, we are not authorized to serve as intercessors. But we can pray for others. In fact, love should impel us to do so. “Pray for one another,” wrote James. “A righteous man’s supplication, when it is at work, has much force.”—James 5:16.
Marie and Theresa learned those precious truths by examining the Bible for themselves. Jehovah’s Witnesses invite you to do the same. As Jesus said, “those worshiping [God] must worship with spirit and truth.”—John 4:24.
HAVE YOU WONDERED?
● To whom alone did Jesus say we should pray?—Matthew 6:9.
● In what capacity does Jesus serve?—Hebrews 7:25.
● Should we pray to God for the welfare of others?—James 5:16.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Obviously Jesus was born a Jew. Did he die a Jew? Was he resurrected a Jew?

He instituted the Sacrament of the Eucharist before he died. Do the Jews believe in the Eucharist?

He taught that he was divine. Did the Jews believe in the divinity of Jesus?

He taught that he had come to save all mankind. Did the Jews believe any such thing, or did they believe they were the exclusive, chosen people?

Do any of the Jewish denominations existing today claim him as a Jew in good standing with their denomination?

After his Resurrection when he returned to instruct the apostles and send them on their apostolic mission, does he send them to teach the old commandments, or “a new commandment I give unto you”?

When he gave all authority to Peter and the apostles, does it look like he is giving no authority to the Sanhedrin?

When he says “I will build my Church” does it sound like it is going to be his church or the old Synagogue?

When he tells the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, does it sound like he wants them to give a Jewish baptism?

Etc., etc.

 

[austenbosten]

The point is Jesus was not a Catholic, the same way HaShem is not Jewish. (or do you all believe God the Father is Jewish because He gave the faith to the tribe of Israel?)

The first Catholics would have been the Apostles. Jesus could not be a Catholic because he wasn’t practicing the Catholic faith, but in fact the Jewish faith. Also for Jesus not to have been a Jew, meant that he wasn’t the Messiah…you people seem to forget that if the OT is false, then that would make the NT false aswell. The OT prophecies clearly stated that the Messiah was to be Jewish and would erect a new covenant.

The truth is Christianity really is Jewish, we both believe in the same God who blessed the same people and hold true to the same laws and Tanahk…however we had a schism between those who believed Christ is the Messiah and those who don’t. Those who didn’t continued on with their faith and had to modify it after the destruction of the Temple, while the others who believed in the Messiah added new books to the Tanahk and formed the NT and built their faith around the New Covenant…Jesus Christ.

However I find it interesting that some Catholics on here seem to disagree with me and many members of the Church who seem to see what I see.

 

[Typist]

However I find it interesting that some Catholics on here seem to disagree with me and many members of the Church who seem to see what I see.

This is the inevitable destination of any ideology (not just Christianity).

Ideology is made of thought. Thought is inherently divisive.

Thus, ideologies always divide, and subdivide, and subdivide further until we reach the point where almost everybody is squabbling with almost everybody else.

As evidence, see how this happens even with an ideology that is explicitly about love.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Jesus was not a Catholic, he was a Jew.

This post explains it:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=610233&highlight=was+jesus+catholic

He was born and lived as a practicing Jew yes, but I’ve always held the belief that Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism just as Christ is the fulfillment of the Messiah. If Judaism (as it were) were correct than Christ would not have needed to establish an earthly authority and teach things that stand independent from jewish beliefs (such as the Trinity for one)

 

[austenbosten]

He was born and lived as a practicing Jew yes, but I’ve always held the belief that Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism just as Christ is the fulfillment of the Messiah. If Judaism (as it were) were correct than Christ would not have needed to establish an earthly authority and teach things that stand independent from jewish beliefs (such as the Trinity for one)

I don’t think any of us are saying Jesus was Jewish, therefore Judaism is correct. What we are saying is the Catholicism is not a seperate faith, but in fact the fulfillment of the Jewish faith of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Moses. As Christ said He did not come to remove Moses’s law, but fulfill them.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

austebbosten
**
As Christ said He did not come to remove Moses’s law, but fulfill them. **

And he did. He is the bridge between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was exclusively with the Jews. The New Covenant was with universal (catholic) mankind.

I take it you believe Christ advocated the New Covenant over the Old Covenant.

 

[austenbosten]

austebbosten
**
As Christ said He did not come to remove Moses’s law, but fulfill them. **

And he did. He is the bridge between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was exclusively with the Jews. The New Covenant was with universal (catholic) mankind.

I take it you believe Christ advocated the New Covenant over the Old Covenant.

Yes I do. Christ is the New Covenant, but that doesn’t mean he was a Catholic, it simply meant he brought Judaism in the form of the New Covenant to the whole world. He brought an elevated form of Judaism to the world. However Jesus did not live his life as a Catholic, even though He began the Catholic faith and handed the Keys to Saint Peter.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

ausrenbosten
**
However Jesus did not live his life as a Catholic, even though He began the Catholic faith and handed the Keys to Saint Peter. **

And Plato was not a Platonist even though he founded a school of philosophy named after him.

He lived part of his life as a Jew, and the last part of his life teaching and dying for the New Covenant which he left to the Catholic Church, not to the Old Covenant Jews.

 

[austenbosten]

ausrenbosten
**
However Jesus did not live his life as a Catholic, even though He began the Catholic faith and handed the Keys to Saint Peter. **

And Plato was not a Platonist even though he founded a school of philosophy named after him.

He lived part of his life as a Jew, and the last part of his life teaching and dying for the New Covenant which he left to the Catholic Church, not to the Old Covenant Jews.

Look we’re not going to agree on this. So let’s just agree to disagree.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

**Look we’re not going to agree on this. So let’s just agree to disagree. **