Was Jesus a Jew or a Christian?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jesus_Is_God_1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jesus_Is_God_1

Guest
I was debating with a Muslim earlier. He of course threw out the usual Islamic arguments that Islam was the first religion so that figures such as Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, King Solomon, and even Jesus are considered to be Muslim. I of course countered this by saying that Islam was founded by Muhammad in 7th century Arabia and that it’s actually a young religion. It’s only about 1,407 years old to be exact. I then explained to him that Jesus is not a Muslim but that he is Jewish. He then asked me,

“How could you say Jesus is Jewish when you are a Christian?”

I responded,

“Obviously you know nothing about Jesus to ask a question like that. Jesus was born a Jew, raised as a Jew, and practiced Judaism.”

He then answered back,

“Well if Jesus was a Jew all his life then why aren’t you Jewish?”

“Because he founded Christianity.”

“Then you are saying he is Christian.”

“No, because he cannot worship himself. In Christianity, Jesus is the center because we believe him to be God and so worship him. Those who worship him are Christians. After all, the word Christian means “Follower of Christ.” This is different from Islam because in Islam Muhammad is not the center, Allah is. Muslims worship Allah. Therefore we could say Muhammad was Muslim and the founder of Islam. Islam does mean “Those who submit to Allah.” Jesus however was Jewish, and the founder of Christianity. Although he certainly wouldn’t be in line with what Judaism has come to today, and more in line with ancient Second Temple Judaism, Jesus was and is and always will be Jew who also happens to be the Son of God and savior of humanity and his followers are called Christians.”

We continued to debate a little bit further. After the debate I got to thinking about whether this is theologically correct or not. Anyone know if there is a truly correct way to explain this? Was my explanation accurate?
 
BTW do not use about and exact in the same sentence. "It’s only about 1,407 years old to be exact…
 
Jesus_Is_God;14398641. Anyone know if there is a truly correct way to explain this? Was my explanation accurate? [/QUOTE said:
I’m not sure I have the total answer, but there are a few observations and thoughts.

I might offer that Jesus didn’t found Christianity, Peter and the first disciples and later the Romans, did. The word Christian didn’t come into usage until about 100 A.D. Initially those who followed Christ and his Gospel were called followers of 'The Way"

You are correct that Jesus was born, lived, and died a Jew. One of the first debates among the apostles was did one have to become Jewish (undergo circumcision) to become followers. It was the persecution of both the Jews in the immediate decades following the resurrection, and later the Romans who moved the early church into identifying itself as Christian and not Jewish. And to establish itself independent of the Jewish hierarchy as an independent “Church.” Refer to the commission of Peter by Christ.

An interesting question might be, if the Jews of those early decades after the resurrection followed Christ, would there be any Christian church? Would we all go to the local synagogue?

Just a thought
Click to expand...
 
joeybaggz said:
I’m not sure I have the total answer, but there are a few observations and thoughts.

I might offer that Jesus didn’t found Christianity, Peter and the first disciples and later the Romans, did. The word Christian didn’t come into usage until about 100 A.D. Initially those who followed Christ and his Gospel were called followers of 'The Way"
Click to expand...
Well, the word “Catholic” didn’t come into usage until the late 1st or early 2nd century to describe the Church. Ignatius of Antioch was the first to use it. Does this mean that the Church wasn’t always Catholic and that the Catholic Church isn’t the first Church? No. The Catholic Church is the first Christian Church founded by Jesus. Christians have not always been called Christians but that doesn’t mean Christianity started at a later time. Names evolve.

And the name “Christian” came into much earlier usage than that, starting in Antioch.
*
“The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.”* - Acts 11:26

This was in the late 40’s of the 1st century. Additionally, Peter himself also refers to followers of Christ as Christians.
*
“However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.”* - 1 Peter 4:16

Jewish historian, Josephus, calls followers of Jesus Christians in the 90’s of the 1st century.

*“And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.” *- Josephus [Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3.]
 
joeybaggz said:
An interesting question might be, if the Jews of those early decades after the resurrection followed Christ, would there be any Christian church? Would we all go to the local synagogue?

Just a thought
Click to expand...
Based on a film that was presented at a Bible study I attended some years ago, they went to the Synagogue to hear the Scriptures on Saturdays, and then gathered for the Eucharist at the Bishop’s house on Sundays.

After the Jewish authorities forebade them from going to the synagogue, they added the Liturgy of the Word to their celebration of the Eucharist at the Bishop’s house.

Over time, Bishop’s houses began to share common characteristics, such as gathering spaces, Sanctuaries, for the Altar and Ambo, and other design elements and furnishings that most modern Catholics would find very familiar.

By 60 AD, two years before the first words of the New Testament were written down, the experience of Sunday Mass was the same in every important way as the Sunday Mass you will attend at your local parish next Sunday.
 
It could be fairly said I think that Jesus lived and died a Jew. Then he came back from the dead and founded Christianity. This would be at the point of sending the apostles out to convert people across the world.
 
Since the word “Christian” literally means “follower of Christ” Jesus could not be a Christian since he didn’t follow himself. You are perfectly correct in saying Jesus lived and died (and rose) a Jew.

I don’t understand how your friend can claim that Islam was the first religion when the Koran talks about Jesus and even has an entire chapter devoted to his mother Mary :confused: Islam began 600 years later.
 
This has always been my take on it. Jesus did not start his ministry until He was 30 or 31 and prior to this He lived a quiet life until His time had come, living as a jew but because it was part of jewiah law. His life could have been in danger as people would have knew He was special…His reason for being here was to die for us and to establish His church was it not? Jesus put everything in place for His church before He ascended into heaven…placing Peter the first Pope, giving the apostles the power to forgive sins…being Baptised in the Jordan…the last supper (the first Mass) are a few examples.
 
Jesus, was born as a Jew, but He was also The Christ, which is God With Us.

Your Islamic friend is merely playing semantics, which is the same I had with a Muslim years ago.

Only difference is, he started becoming hostile and we were at work and I would’ve gotten fired for arguing with him, so I left the subject.

He was eventually fired when he threw a monitor against the war in the lab.

Jim
 
When did Our Lady become Catholic? When the Holy Spirit decended upon Her and the Apostles on Pentacost sunday?
 
The word “Catholic,” means “universal.”

As previously stated, there was no Catholic, i.e.Universal Church, at the time of the Annunciation.

Jim
 
Jesus_Is_God said:
But Mary was the first to become a follower of Christ.
Click to expand...
She was Jesus Mother, but not a member of the Catholic Church which did not exist until Christ instituted it long after his birth.

Even then, the Church had to evolve and is still evolving.

Jim
 
Jesus was born a Jew, lived as a Jew, died as a Jew, and rose from the dead as a Jew.
 
jmcrae said:
Yes, there was. She was it.

The formal organization began at Pentecost, but Mary was the first Catholic Christian believer.
Click to expand...
Since the word Catholic means universal how can you say she was it? Jesus formed a church, but his followers were known as Christians not Catholics, at least not until the 2nd century.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top