Would you agree that she was the first person to know that Jesus was the Divine Son of God, born of a virgin?Since the word Catholic means universal how can you say she was it? Jesus formed a church, but his followers were known as Christians not Catholics, at least not until the 2nd century.
She knew that she would be the mother of the Christ.Would you agree that she was the first person to know that Jesus was the Divine Son of God, born of a virgin?
Would you agree that she knew this at the time of the Annunciation?
Would you say that this is a doctrine of the Catholic faith, or a tenet of Jewish teaching?
That’s not what I’m saying. Yes, the Catholic Church grew out from her and became a 2,000 year old world-wide institutional religion, and she probably didn’t think about whether or not that would happen (although I don’t know - it may have occurred to her that this might happen). What she knew or didn’t know about the later form of the Church is not the point - what is the point is that when she understood that the child in her womb was the Son of God, and that she, a virgin, was going to give birth to Him, she was the whole totality of the Church - meaning, the congregation of those who believe that the child born of Mary is the Son of God.She knew that she would be the mother of the Christ.
She most likely did not know that the Catholic Church would result, certainly not what we have today.
Jim
Yes, yes, and yes Catholic doctrine. But just because she knew something that later became doctrine doesn’t mean the church actually existed at that time.Would you agree that she was the first person to know that Jesus was the Divine Son of God, born of a virgin?
Would you agree that she knew this at the time of the Annunciation?
Would you say that this is a doctrine of the Catholic faith, or a tenet of Jewish teaching?
“Thou art Peter ad upon this rock I WLL BULID my Church”But Mary was the first to become a follower of Christ.
Yes, Peter became the first leader of the Church, that doesn’t mean he was the first member.“Thou art Peter ad upon this rock I WLL BULID my Church”
I didn’t say that he was the first member but just that that was when Jesus built His Church.Yes, Peter became the first leader of the Church, that doesn’t mean he was the first member.
Salutations,I was debating with a Muslim earlier. He of course threw out the usual Islamic arguments that Islam was the first religion so that figures such as Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, King Solomon, and even Jesus are considered to be Muslim. I of course countered this by saying that Islam was founded by Muhammad in 7th century Arabia and that it’s actually a young religion. It’s only about 1,407 years old to be exact. I then explained to him that Jesus is not a Muslim but that he is Jewish. He then asked me,
“How could you say Jesus is Jewish when you are a Christian?”
I responded,
“Obviously you know nothing about Jesus to ask a question like that. Jesus was born a Jew, raised as a Jew, and practiced Judaism.”
He then answered back,
“Well if Jesus was a Jew all his life then why aren’t you Jewish?”
“Because he founded Christianity.”
“Then you are saying he is Christian.”
“No, because he cannot worship himself. In Christianity, Jesus is the center because we believe him to be God and so worship him. Those who worship him are Christians. After all, the word Christian means “Follower of Christ.” This is different from Islam because in Islam Muhammad is not the center, Allah is. Muslims worship Allah. Therefore we could say Muhammad was Muslim and the founder of Islam. Islam does mean “Those who submit to Allah.” Jesus however was Jewish, and the founder of Christianity. Although he certainly wouldn’t be in line with what Judaism has come to today, and more in line with ancient Second Temple Judaism, Jesus was and is and always will be Jew who also happens to be the Son of God and savior of humanity and his followers are called Christians.”
We continued to debate a little bit further. After the debate I got to thinking about whether this is theologically correct or not. Anyone know if there is a truly correct way to explain this? Was my explanation accurate?