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Psychotheosophy
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Why is it believed that Jesus was a spiritual being only?
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Matthias123
Guest
That Christological heresy sounds like it was from Gnosticism. Their battle cry was “Matter is evil!”
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tjm190
Guest
Didn’t we finish this debate almost 2000 years ago?
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geometer
Guest
Jesus was a man. If Jesus was not a man, then there is no gospel.Why is it believed that Jesus was a spiritual being only?
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Jethro_Tull
Guest
Jesus was a man. He is now with us in spirit and in truth, waiting for us to find the correct interpretation of what he is saying. He communicates to us through the Holy Spirit. He is not coming back physically as a man in a white sheet and sandals, but he will embody us when we seek him (the truth and the life). We will have the mind of Christ. That is the second coming of Christ, our embodiment of Jesus, the truth and the life.
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geometer
Guest
Why is he not coming back in the flesh? Who told you that?Jesus was a man. He is now with us in spirit and in truth, waiting for us to find the correct interpretation of what he is saying. He communicates to us through the Holy Spirit. He is not coming back physically as a man in a white sheet and sandals, but he will embody us when we seek him (the truth and the life). We will have the mind of Christ. That is the second coming of Christ, our embodiment of Jesus, the truth and the life.
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Matthias123
Guest
Jesus was a man. He is now with us in spirit and in truth, waiting for us to find the correct interpretation of what he is saying. He communicates to us through the Holy Spirit. He is not coming back physically as a man in a white sheet and sandals, but he will embody us when we seek him (the truth and the life). We will have the mind of Christ. That is the second coming of Christ, our embodiment of Jesus, the truth and the life.
Jesus Christ is a man-God. 100% man and 100% God.Jesus was a man.
And in the flesh as the Eucharist.He is now with us in spirit and in truth,
Doubt that. Mother Church has defined infalibly the important parts.waiting for us to find the correct interpretation of what he is saying.
Wooooah?! Where did you get that from?He is not coming back physically as a man in a white sheet and sandals, but he will embody us when we seek him (the truth and the life).
What does that mean? Where did you get it from?We will have the mind of Christ.
I think you are a little mixed up my friend. I assume you are not a Catholic Christian.
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chaunceygardner
Guest
The title to your post and your question are somewhat different. Perhaps your title should be: ** IS Jesus a spiritual being only? ** since the great majority of people on this forum would say He “IS”, that He is alive and eternal, not that he “WAS”.Why is it believed that Jesus was a spiritual being only?
Your query would also make somewhat more sense if it read:
Why WAS it believed that Jesus IS a spiritual being only?
It is unlikely that very many Christians would make that assertion now, but it was a Gnostic assertion in the second century. The main proponent of the idea that Jesus was a spirit only, who came to earth fully grown, was Marcion. At the beginning Marcion was a leader in the church, but then tried to impart his own particular views about Jesus that didn’t fly with the prevailing view. He was shot down.
Marcion stripped the Gospel of everything except the portions of Luke involving Jesus’ teaching. He kept the letters of Paul, but heavily edited them. He tossed out any references to Judaism and Jewish scripture. No birth narrative, no Passion or crucifixion. To Marcion, Jesus was a spirit sent by God to set us on the right path before returning “home” again. To him, Jesus was never human. This obviously contradicted what was reported by the Apostles as recorded in the Gospels.
So that is why I suggested changing your question, because it is about history and references something that happened 1900 years ago. The accepted teaching about the nature of Jesus has already been provided in prior posts.
One positive result of Marcion’s attempts to drastically alter the writings we had about Jesus is that the Church was pushed into defining what should be in the Canon, the “official” books of the New Testament. The Church Fathers wanted to make sure we were all on the same pages, so to speak. We can thank Marcion for kick starting that process.
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Psychotheosophy
Guest
Thank you for the correction.The title to your post and your question are somewhat different. Perhaps your title should be: ** IS Jesus a spiritual being only? ** since the great majority of people on this forum would say He “IS”, that He is alive and eternal, not that he “WAS”.
Your query would also make somewhat more sense if it read:
Why WAS it believed that Jesus IS a spiritual being only?
To Marcion,It is unlikely that very many Christians would make that assertion now, but it was a Gnostic assertion in the second century. The main proponent of the idea that Jesus was a spirit only, who came to earth fully grown, was Marcion. At the beginning Marcion was a leader in the church, but then tried to impart his own particular views about Jesus that didn’t fly with the prevailing view. He was shot down.
Marcion stripped the Gospel of everything except the portions of Luke involving Jesus’ teaching. He kept the letters of Paul, but heavily edited them. He tossed out any references to Judaism and Jewish scripture. No birth narrative, no Passion or crucifixion. To Marcion, Jesus was a spirit sent by God to set us on the right path before returning “home” again. To him, Jesus was never human. This obviously contradicted what was reported by the Apostles as recorded in the Gospels.
So that is why I suggested changing your question, because it is about history and references something that happened 1900 years ago. The accepted teaching about the nature of Jesus has already been provided in prior posts.
One positive result of Marcion’s attempts to drastically alter the writings we had about Jesus is that the Church was pushed into defining what should be in the Canon, the “official” books of the New Testament. The Church Fathers wanted to make sure we were all on the same pages, so to speak. We can thank Marcion for kick starting that process.
What was the the “right” way,
That had nothing to do with physical reality?
D
diggerdomer
Guest
It’s not, by Christians. Why do you ask?Why is it believed that Jesus was a spiritual being only?
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Psychotheosophy
Guest
I agree,It’s not, by Christians. Why do you ask?
Physical sensation is less prone to deception than perception.
God uses physical things to lead us to spiritual things.
Therefore, The Way (Jesus) is both physical and spiritual.
The purpose of this thread,It’s not, by Christians. Why do you ask?
Is to understand why people believe (or believed)
That Jesus is (was) only a spiritual being.
I would welcome archaic or modern arguments.
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diggerdomer
Guest
Well if this is what you’re looking for I think you’ll have a hard time on a Christian/Catholic forum finding out why people believe something that is non-Christian. Good luck.I agree,
Physical sensation is less prone to deception than perception.
God uses physical things to lead us to spiritual things.
Therefore, The Way (Jesus) is both physical and spiritual.
The purpose of this thread,
Is to understand why people believe (or believed)
That Jesus is (was) only a spiritual being.
I would welcome archaic or modern arguments.
C
chaunceygardner
Guest
You can find a lot of info on Marcion in church histories. He taught that there were really two Gods, the first Jewish God (Yahweh) who created the universe and man, but in essence grew to dislike what he created. And then a different God, the New Testament God, who sent Jesus to establish a new covenant totally separate from the old, and that was not directed toward the Jews, but to all humanity. Jesus did not appear to humans to complete prophecy, but to start something totally new and different. Jesus came to free people from the bondage of the Jewish God, rather than from the bonds of their own sinful nature.To Marcion,
What was the the “right” way,
That had nothing to do with physical reality?
In editing the gospels, Marcion eliminated any connection between Jesus and Judaism. Jesus was spirit, sent by God, never a human being born of Mary. Marcion also retained Paul’s writings (not sure how much of them, or which specifically). Marcion considered Paul the one one true apostle, discounting the 12 apostles, who were Jews.
Marcion taught that since Jesus did not have a human body, there was no bodily resurrection. Jesus could not be the messiah, since He was not a creation of Yahweh, the discredited god.
His theology was actually very popular (probably among the great number of gentile Christians) and threatened the orthodox view. Even after Marcion’s teachings were suppressed, similar beliefs popped up in other places over the next few centuries. So it would not surprise me if there are those today who believe in Jesus as divine spirit, rather than as man and God.
Perhaps someone else knows more about that subject and can shed some light on what that belief is based on.
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
So,You can find a lot of info on Marcion in church histories. He taught that there were really two Gods, the first Jewish God (Yahweh) who created the universe and man, but in essence grew to dislike what he created. And then a different God, the New Testament God, who sent Jesus to establish a new covenant totally separate from the old, and that was not directed toward the Jews, but to all humanity. Jesus did not appear to humans to complete prophecy, but to start something totally new and different. Jesus came to free people from the bondage of the Jewish God, rather than from the bonds of their own sinful nature.
In editing the gospels, Marcion eliminated any connection between Jesus and Judaism. Jesus was spirit, sent by God, never a human being born of Mary. Marcion also retained Paul’s writings (not sure how much of them, or which specifically). Marcion considered Paul the one one true apostle, discounting the 12 apostles, who were Jews.
Marcion taught that since Jesus did not have a human body, there was no bodily resurrection. Jesus could not be the messiah, since He was not a creation of Yahweh, the discredited god.
His theology was actually very popular (probably among the great number of gentile Christians) and threatened the orthodox view. Even after Marcion’s teachings were suppressed, similar beliefs popped up in other places over the next few centuries. So it would not surprise me if there are those today who believe in Jesus as divine spirit, rather than as man and God.
Perhaps someone else knows more about that subject and can shed some light on what that belief is based on.
How would Marcion
Describe the relationship
Between receiving faith (spiritual) and receiving miracles (physical)?
Did Marcion remove
The Bread (Manna) from Heaven
Writings from scripture?
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tobinatorstark
Guest
He was not a spiritual being only. He was human too. I person 2 divine natures. I think you may have been referring to the time around Constanople with Cryil of Alexandria (I believe) and another gentleman I don’t know how to spell his name. This all goes back to the Theotokos. Mary just didn’t bore Jesus and only his human nature in the womb. She is the mother of God. Christ isn’t 2 separate indentities.Why is it believed that Jesus was a spiritual being only?
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MercyMia
Guest
Because new heresies are invented everyday once you stray from the one true Church.Why is it believed that Jesus was a spiritual being only?
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Although in reality, there is nothing new under the sun. All of the old rusty heresies are sooner or later dug up again and used against Catholicism in some new guise.Because new heresies are invented everyday once you stray from the one true Church.
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