Was Jesus born on September 11th, 3 B.C. ?

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Colliric, you list yourself as Pentecostal and then say ‘we Catholics’ in your post? What gives?
I am in the midst of conversion to the Catholic faith from the pentacostal(Fundamentalist) faith. I won’t list myself as fully catholic until I complete my Rite of passage(RCIA) which will be done by April. Essentially my mind is already there, but I understand it is a slow process and I am not a full member until I complete RCIA.

I have just been informed my previous Baptism into another Christian church was a valid one and therefore I can skip that phase and go to the next if I wanted to.

So how come it can be said that the 25th of December is not infallible doctrine when it was Pope Julius I who officially set it as the date of Jesus birth? I don’t understand that, but I am sorry in my newness to the faith that I’m not particularly certain why it is now considered “tradition” when it was the pope of 320AD who set it as doctrine?
 
Hi Shlichus,

I was reading your post with interest, until I reached this bit…
… we come to the exact date that Jesus died on the cross which was Wednesday, April 3rd, in 30 A.D…
This is a foolish argument that some Saturday Sabbath keepers use to try and win support for their cause (continuing the argument that Jesus was resurrected on a Saturday).

The fact is, Jesus died on Friday 3rd April, 33 AD. There was a lunar eclipse that day to prove it!

I’ve posted about this before on a different thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1706005#post1706005

(BTW, Friday 3rd April 33AD is reckoned with the then popular Julian calendar system. In today’s modern Gregorian calendar system it would be be Friday 1st April 33AD.)

Anyway… as for the birth of Christ being celebrated on December 25th; We Catholics know that this is a fictional date. But we don’t care. It is a wonderful date that helped us to assimilate with the pagans, and it was won many pagans and other non-christians alike over the centuries. December 25th is good enough for us.
 
Hi Shlichus,

I was reading your post with interest, until I reached this bit…

This is a foolish argument that some Saturday Sabbath keepers use to try and win support for their cause (continuing the argument that Jesus was resurrected on a Saturday).

The fact is, Jesus died on Friday 3rd April, 33 AD. There was a lunar eclipse that day to prove it!

I’ve posted about this before on a different thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1706005#post1706005

(BTW, Friday 3rd April 33AD is reckoned with the then popular Julian calendar system. In today’s modern Gregorian calendar system it would be be Friday 1st April 33AD.)

Anyway… as for the birth of Christ being celebrated on December 25th; We Catholics know that this is a fictional date. But we don’t care. It is a wonderful date that helped us to assimilate with the pagans, and it was won many pagans and other non-christians alike over the centuries. December 25th is good enough for us.
For those who doubt this poster once again I’ll point to
starofbethlehem.net/day/day.htm

Jesus died on the 3rd of April 33Ad at approximatly 3PM, there is no question about it.
 
It matters because this is the “golden b.b.” that will bring down the house of cards that is the Catholic Church. Since day one, people have tried to show how wrong our faith is and how mislead we are, yet here we are. Perhaps if they can show that the calender is wrong, than everything else must be, too. Personally, I am glad to see something different than the “whore of Babylon” or “the Pope is the antichrist” stuff.
 
I am in the midst of conversion to the Catholic faith from the pentacostal(Fundamentalist) faith. I won’t list myself as fully catholic until I complete my Rite of passage(RCIA) which will be done by April. Essentially my mind is already there, but I understand it is a slow process and I am not a full member until I complete RCIA.

I have just been informed my previous Baptism into another Christian church was a valid one and therefore I can skip that phase and go to the next if I wanted to.

So how come it can be said that the 25th of December is not infallible doctrine when it was Pope Julius I who officially set it as the date of Jesus birth? I don’t understand that, but I am sorry in my newness to the faith that I’m not particularly certain why it is now considered “tradition” when it was the pope of 320AD who set it as doctrine?
Hi Colliric,
Welcome home!

The difficulty you are having with this question comes from not understanding what the charism of infallibility is. Not everything a pope says or does is infallible. We are, however, expected to give serious consideration to everything the pope teaches.

That being said, the date on which the pope decided to place the birth of Jesus in the liturgical calendar is not a teaching at all, but is a policy decision. It is not even a formal declaration of doctrine, much less an infallible pronouncement. It is just a pious tradition.

Again, welcome home and God love you,
Paul
 
In all the fussing about the month and the day, we’re forgetting that Jesus couldn’t have been born in 3 B.C., much less 2 B.C. Herod was still alive when Jesus was born, and he died in 4 B.C.
 
Uh no,

Jesus Christ was likely born on the 25th of December in 2 BC, If the infallibility of the pope’s word for him being born on December 25th doesn’t do it for you, then this is what had me convinced he was born on that date, or a date close to it(as it was most definably the date the magi arrived in Bethlehem):

starofbethlehem.net/

We now know the Catholic church is, as usual, far closer to the truth because it probably had the physical extra biblical evidence which existed in the day. Not the least of which includes the fact that we recently found out that Herod died in 1 BC.

The chruch’s opinion has always been at odds with most protestants and fundamentalists who believe the star was the same phenomena caused by god when he was present at a location(I.e The burning bush or the cloud at the tabanacle). The church has always held the belief it was an actual star because the magi would have known the nature of what they were seeing in the sky was odd as opposed to Herod who wuld not have noticed anything strange(as it says so in the bible that he didn’t see the signs).
I did the research about 2 - 3 years ago and agree with Dec. 25th.

:cool:
 
I did the research about 2 - 3 years ago and agree with Dec. 25th.

:cool:
To my knowledge also some early Christians believed that it occurred on the 5th of January; others the 19th of April; others still on the 20th of May. The Eastern church believed that he was born on the 7th of January.

For instance my Egyptian Coptic Christians have Eid Al Naseem which falls on the Jan 7th and few Arman Orthodox churches celebrate on April 19th, by the way, was the Church in Rome that decided on December 25th…?
 
You can find a more clear time if you read the Bible, Daniel (also reffered by Christ for His second coming in Matthew Chapter 24). In there, the exact time of his appearence and Martyrdom can be calculated.

If you need help, I can show you the verses, and you can calculate/decide for yourself.
 
You can find a more clear time if you read the Bible, Daniel (also reffered by Christ for His second coming in Matthew Chapter 24). In there, the exact time of his appearence and Martyrdom can be calculated.

If you need help, I can show you the verses, and you can calculate/decide for yourself.

I read the the bible and precisely in the Mathew 24 but how did you work out the calculations, this is interesting, please share.

Thanks
 
In the book of Daniel, chapter*9, there is an impressive prophecy regarding the Messiah. It describes both his coming and his being cut off in death, which provided a ransom sacrifice to atone for sin and establish a basis for obedient mankind to gain “righteousness for times indefinite.” (Daniel 9:24-27; Matthew 20:28.)

According to this prophecy, all of this would be accomplished within a period of 70 weeks of years, beginning in the year 455B.C.E., when the command went forth to rebuild Jerusalem. (Nehemiah 2:1-11) From the time division in this prophecy, it can be discerned that the Messiah would appear at the beginning of the 70th week of years. This occurred when Jesus presented himself for baptism in 29C.E., officially beginning his Messianic role. “At the half of the week,” or after three and a half years, the Messiah would be cut off in death, thereby bringing an end to the value of all sacrifices under the Mosaic Law covenant.—Hebrews 9:11-15; 10:1-10.

This prophecy reveals that the length of Jesus’ ministry was three and a half years. Jesus died on Passover, Nisan14 (according to the Jewish calendar), in the spring of 33C.E. The equivalent date for that year would be April1. (Matthew 26:2) Counting back three and a half years places his baptism in 29C.E. at the beginning of October. Luke informs us that Jesus was about 30 years old at his baptism. (Luke 3:21-23) This would mean that Jesus’ birth also was near the beginning of October. In harmony with Luke’s account, the shepherds would at that time of year still be “out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks.”—Luke 2:8.
 
( Matthew Chapter 24, Verse 15)

” When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) ”

Chapters 8-12 of the Book of Daniel deal with this subject inclusively. These chapters are used to foretell the first coming of Christ as well as the second and thus are very important in proving the legitimacy of Christ’s claim as the Messiah of His age.

In these chapters Daniel prophesies that from the issuing of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem until the time the Messiah shall be cut off (crucified) there are appointed 70 weeks (490 years).Daniel Chapter 9, Verse 24-27” Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

Simple Math: 70 weeks = 72 weeks = 490 days
Or,
7 Weeks + 60 Weeks (threescore) + 2 Weeks + 1 Week = 70 Weeks = 490 Days Determining when the decree to rebuild Jerusalem was issued can thus arrive at the first appearance of the Messiah. History shows that three different Persian kings issued a total of four decrees.

Cyrus issued the first in 536 BCE but it was not fulfilled (1st chapter of Ezra).
Darius issued a second in the year 519 BCE. The Temple was rebuilt under this decree but not the city.

Artaxerxes issued a decree in 457 BCE (7th chapter of Ezra) and reissued the same decree in 444 BCE, which was finally fulfilled (2nd chapter of Nehemiah). Biblical scholars regarded the first decree of Artaxerxes as being the decree, which fulfilled the prophecy - the second decree merely extended the validity of the first. Four hundred ninety years subtracted from 457 BCE gives a date of 33 CE, for the year in which the Messiah would be ‘cut off’. 33 CE is the traditional year in which Christ was crucified.

Now, according to the Gospels, His birth took place before the death of Herod. Many historians calculated the death of Herod to have taken place in the month of April in the year 4B.C. Some said it was the year 5, some 6, some as early as the year 8 B.C. Therefore, some of these scholars maintained that Christ was only 28 or less at the time of His death.

The fulfillment of the second half of Daniel’s prophesy was to come about at the end of the ‘abomination of desolation’. Daniel Chapter 8, Verse 13-14 says, "How long shall the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the abomination of desolation, to give the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” The Messiah would return and restore the faith of man at the end of 2,300 years.

Taking the same basis as used for computing the time of the first coming, the second can be determined. Since the year 1 BCE and 1 CE are essentially the same (the dividing point is the day of the Birth of Christ - the day before is BCE and the Birthdate is CE) the subtraction of 456 (Artaxerxes’ first decree to rebuilt Jerusalem) and 2300 (Daniel’s 2,300 days) leaves 1844 as the year of the return. The first promise was fulfilled by the year 1844. The second promise was fulfilled in the year 1844 and the third was to be fulfilled in the year 1844. As another example of the exactitude of God’s prophesies the first decree of Artaxerxes was signed on the 1st of Nisan in 457 BCE and the Edit of Toleration of the Sultan of Turkey was issued on the 1st of Nisan in 1844 CE, 2,300 years to the day.
 
A Brief look at the calculation of time in the Bible:

This I will explain completely through the Bible. Bring any version of the Bible, present in heaven or earth. How many days do a month have in bible?
  1. Genesis Chapter 7, Verse 11 = The waters of the flood came on the 17th day of the second month.
  2. Genesis Chapter 8, Verse 4 = The waters abated and ceased on the 17th day of the seventh month.
  3. Genesis Chapter 7, Verse 24 = The water prevailed upon the earth for 150 days.Simple Mathematics:From the 17th day of the second month, till the 17th day of the seventh month, was exactly 5 months. (7-2=5). These 5 months were of flood, which is said to have taken 150 days. Therefore, 5 months = 150 days. There we get 5 months, each of 30 days = 150/5 = 30.
  4. Now let us see, Ezekiel Chapter 4, Verse 6”I have appointed thee, each day for a year” So we can conclude that a day in calculating a prophecy is a year of 360 days. According to the Formulae given by God Almighty.
 
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