Was Jesus fully human?

[Charlemagne_III]

Does one have to sin to be fully human, was The Blessed Mother fully human?

One does not have to sin to be fully human. But if Adam before the Fall was fully human, he was created with the capacity for sin. Mary, even conceived without sin, was like Eve in that she was sinless before the Fall. Was Mary free to sin? Theoretically it seems so. She chose not to sin, and we choose to believe she was sinless throughout her life. But Christ was more than Adam. Only Christ could undo what Adam had done by opening the door to salvation. But this is what Christ had to do. He was not free not to do that which he came to do. So the question remains: was Jesus fully human as Adam was fully human, or was he Superhuman?

 

[tonyrey]

One does not have to sin to be fully human. But if Adam before the Fall was fully human, he was created with the capacity for sin. Mary, even conceived without sin, was like Eve in that she was sinless before the Fall. Was Mary free to sin? Theoretically it seems so. She chose not to sin, and we choose to believe she was sinless throughout her life. But Christ was more than Adam. Only Christ could undo what Adam had done by opening the door to salvation. But this is what Christ had to do. He was not free not to do that which he came to do. So the question remains: was Jesus fully human as Adam was fully human, or was he Superhuman?

Both! We are not free not to choose whether to love God or ourselves. That is why we were born.

Jesus said that if we have sufficient faith we too can work miracles, i.e. we can be superhuman…

 

[Ion]

One does not have to sin to be fully human. But if Adam before the Fall was fully human, he was created with the capacity for sin. Mary, even conceived without sin, was like Eve in that she was sinless before the Fall. Was Mary free to sin? Theoretically it seems so. She chose not to sin, and we choose to believe she was sinless throughout her life. But Christ was more than Adam. Only Christ could undo what Adam had done by opening the door to salvation. But this is what Christ had to do. He was not free not to do that which he came to do. So the question remains: was Jesus fully human as Adam was fully human, or was he Superhuman?

Jesus was not superhuman, but also he was not only human.
I think that in his human free will, he chose to do God’s will, as it should have been done by Adam, thus sin is impossible. I do not think free will should be understood as a probability of 1/2 to do sin. It is interior, and I think his divine nature guided the human nature in the right relationship with God, without forcing it in any way. And it sounds like a paradox but Jesus had a free human will yet was not possible to do sin.

 

[SMGS127]

The third council of Constantinople [a.18] declared that there are two wills in Christ; his human will and his divine will. His human will is totally free, like ours is; but unlike ours, Christ’s will was perfectly conformed to the divine will so that we should say Christ willed not to sin and not that he couldn’t sin as though he did not have to power to will to sin. St Thomas also teaches this (ST III, q.18, a.5). Hence, it is proper to say that Christ shares in our nature fully, and in the nature of Adam as man without sin, and hence he is properly called the “Second Adam” (1 Cor 15:45).

This. Also, the Council of Chalcedon dogmatically stated that both his human nature and divine nature were full. Thus, he is fully human and fully God simultaneously.

 

[ynotzap]

Jesus was perfectly, completetly and holy human in His human nature.
We are the ones who are not complete and whole, and holy in our fallen nature
Jesus was like Adam before the fall who was complete and whole, and holy in his nature.he had the gift of Integrity.
Adam after sinning became crippled in his nature, imperfect and unholy, he lost the Holy Spirit.
We inherit a fallen nature, imperfect and incomplete due to the effects of sin.
Jesus came to make us whole and holy
His mother Mary was conceived without original sin she was whole and holy in her human nature by God’s providence.
Jesus inherited His mothers human, perfect, whole and holy nature. He was completely perfect too. Neither one suffered from a disordered nature like us.
We are the ones who are incomplete in our human disordered nature.
We have it completely backwards.
Jesus is not to become like us to be completely whole, and human, we are to become like Him in our fallen incomplete, imperfect nature. to become complete, perfect and holy like God originally designed us to be. Than you Jesus!!!

 

[Wildgraywolf]

So therefore he was capable of sin?

Jesus is fully human and fully God all at the same time. It’s impossible for God to sin against himself.

In the first two temptations Satan addresses Jesus with: “If thou be the Son of God…” and for the third temptation Jesus tells Satan: “Begone, Satan: for it is written: The Lord thy God shalt thou adore, and him only shalt thou serve.”

Satan’s temptation of Our Lord was doomed to fail anyway. Satan’s main selling points to Eve in Genesis were “you will not die” and “you will be like God” and Jesus as the Word of God is already eternal, immortal God.

I think Satan wanted to see if Our Lord’s human nature would betray Him and it didn’t.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Yes.

 

[tonyrey]

Jesus was not superhuman, but also he was not only human.

“A superhuman is a human with extraordinary and unusual capabilities enabling them to perform feats well beyond anything that an ordinary person could conceivably achieve.”- wikipedia

 

[Charlemagne_III]

“A superhuman is a human with extraordinary and unusual capabilities enabling them to perform feats well beyond anything that an ordinary person could conceivably achieve.”- wikipedia

Precisely. As in dying and rising from the dead!

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Denys Turner in his book Thomas Aquinas, A Portrait, asserts that Aquinas believed Jesus was fully human as Adam was fully human when he was created in his natural state … ie. he was innocent. What perplexes me about this view is that to be fully human, Adam had to be created with the capacity to choose between good and evil. We know that at some point he (and Eve) chose evil. But we also know that while Jesus was created innocent, it was not possible for him to sin. Lacking the freedom to sin, how can we say Jesus was fully human as Adam was fully human?

Is this a dilemma, or can the question be resolved with a satisfactory explanation?

But Adam was a human person, Christ, on the other hand was a Divine Person. That is why Christ could not sin. Christ had a human nature alright, but His Person had two natures. The Divine Person assumend the human nature. For this reason, in Christ there was no human person, there was only a human nature, a Divine Nature, and a Divine Person. And according to Catholic Doctirne it is the human person, the man, that capable of sin, not just the nature or the body.

An interesting point, Thomas doesn’t appear to have covered it. Any way, I have given the best answer I can give.

Satan attempted to tempt Christ because he was unaware that Christ was Divine. A temptation could be placed before Christ but, as a Divine Person, he was incapable of sinning or even of being moved by any temptation. Of course Christ was angry that the evil one should try to tempt Him, as He is angry when he attempts to tempt any holy person.

Linus2nd

 

[ynotzap]

Precisely. As in dying and rising from the dead!

Does that mean to be fully human we have to be super human? I thought the original question was "Was Jesus fully human. Jesus was God-man. Was His miracles due to being a super-human, or to His Divinity, could He be fully human without using His divinity?Now I know that Adam was endowed by the Holy Spirit, he communicated with God, he was in the state of grace, but these were gifts from God, and not attributed to his finite nature. I thought that performing His miracles was to show that He was truly God. "If You don’t believe Me believe My works."Does To be fully human mean that we have to be endowed with the grace of God, the Holy Spirit which makes it possible to do super-human things? It seems so. For Jesus to be fully human mean he has to be superhuman?
Did Jesus rise from the dead because He was super-human or because He was God? Were His divine nature and human nature two separate natures united in One Person I can’t imagine a super-human giving life, God is the author of life. Was Jesus then acting in His human nature, or His divine nature when He resurrected.? Human life ceases when the body fails, so how could Jesus as a super-human act If He could act humanly or superhumanly would He be like us in all things, except sin?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Could Adam sin? Yes.

Could Jesus sin? No.

Was Adam divine? No.

Was Jesus divine? Yes.

Did Adam perform miracles? No.

Did Jesus perform miracles? Yes.

Did Adam rise from the dead? No.

Did Jesus rise from the dead? Yes?

 

[tonyrey]

Precisely. As in dying and rising from the dead!

In the context of this thread the term “superhuman” seems more appropriate than “supernatural” because it emphasizes the human rather than divine nature of Jesus and avoids any trace of Docetism.

 

[ynotzap]

It seems to me that the original state of man as God intended was to be fully human
That is sharing in divine grace. that was in the equasion., in God’s design.
The fall crippled man, and he was unable to help himself, but he did receive a promise of a Redeemer. Isn’t ones’ struggle in life with the help of God’s grace to get back to that state before the fall, and that is to become fully human as God intended. In other words one can"t be fully human without the grace of God, which is available through Jesus, and only Jesus.
In that sense being like God through grace we become like “super human” because we share in divinity, although we are never divine, but remain finite.in our nature.

 

[Tom_Baum]

But Adam was a human person, Christ, on the other hand was a Divine Person. That is why Christ could not sin. Christ had a human nature alright, but His Person had two natures. The Divine Person assumend the human nature. For this reason, in Christ there was no human person, there was only a human nature, a Divine Nature, and a Divine Person. And according to Catholic Doctirne it is the human person, the man, that capable of sin, not just the nature or the body.

An interesting point, Thomas doesn’t appear to have covered it. Any way, I have given the best answer I can give.

Satan attempted to tempt Christ because he was unaware that Christ was Divine. A temptation could be placed before Christ but, as a Divine Person, he was incapable of sinning or even of being moved by any temptation. Of course Christ was angry that the evil one should try to tempt Him, as He is angry when he attempts to tempt any holy person.

Linus2nd

Seems to me that you are saying that the “Incarnation” was almost an Incarnation but not quite, I totally disagree.

By the way, satan knew exactly who Jesus was/is.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Could Adam sin? Yes.

Could Jesus sin? No.

Was Adam divine? No.

Was Jesus divine? Yes.

Did Adam perform miracles? No.

Did Jesus perform miracles? Yes.

Did Adam rise from the dead? No.

Did Jesus rise from the dead? Yes?

You wrote, “Could Jesus sin? No.”

Wrong.

Yes He could but He didn’t.

The Incarnation is one of the most basic, simple “facts” of Christianity, without the Incarnation, there is no Christianity and if there was just an “almost Incarnation”, there is no Christianity.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

You wrote, “Could Jesus sin? No.”

Wrong.

Yes He could but He didn’t.

It was not in his nature to sin. Therefore he could not sin. And he never did.

It was in Adam’s nature to be able to sin, and he proved it by sinning.

 

[Tom_Baum]

It was not in his nature to sin. Therefore he could not sin. And he never did.

It was in Adam’s nature to be able to sin, and he proved it by sinning.

If Jesus “could not sin” than Jesus was not as “human” as the bible says, so are you saying that what is written concerning Jesus’s Incarnation is a lie?

Are you also saying that the whole episode of Jesus’s temptation is a farce?

Are you saying that God did NOT become One of us but only appeared to become One of us?

What about Jesus’s crucifixion, are you also claiming that that is a fraud?

Why do you think that Jesus is liar?

 

[ynotzap]

If you admit Jesus is God and to sin is to go against God’s will, then God would be contradicting Himself and that’s an impossibility. Jesus said “Father I come to do Your Will”
An evil spirit can say “You are the Holy One of God” and still not recognize that Jesus was God but just a holy man.
The Bible has some “APPARENT” contradictions. Jesus could not sin, and He chose to do His Father’s will, He did use His free will, so He was like us in every way but sin. Mary the mother of Jesus was preserved from sin. She was born without Original sin. She had the potential to sin, but wasn’t afflicted like us with the “tendency to sin.” She also said to God" I will become the mother of Your Son (paraphrase) she also used her free will. Jesus was truly human, but no sin.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Why do you think that Jesus is liar?

Take a deep breath and back off, buster!