Was Jesus here before creation

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Stephen.Andrew

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All life began through Jesus, Right?
 
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Well the Trinity existed, so yes the Second Person was here. But not as Jesus because he didn’t have a body or a name yet. I’m guessing??
 
Yes but equally He always knew His name and His body as He is all knowing. I’d say and there’s the eternal now thing, so there isnt really a before creation and a after creation as such, it’s all now to God anyway.
Also creation was a Trinity ‘effort’ not just the Word as such. You can’t divide them up.
 
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John 1: 1-18 says yes, as Jesus is the Word.
1 1 2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be

4 through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;

5 4 the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 5 A man named John was sent from God.

7 He came for testimony, 6 to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him.

8 He was not the light, but came to testify to the light.

9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him.

11 He came to what was his own, but his own people 7 did not accept him.

12 But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name,

13 8 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh 9 and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.

15 10 John testified to him and cried out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘The one who is coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’”

16 From his fullness we have all received, grace in place of grace, 11

17 because while the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, 12 who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.
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“Here” as in “existed”?
Yes, all persons of the Trinity are eternal.
Here on Earth incarnated into a body? No.
The incarnation was an event in history.
 
Jesus was everywhere before Creation, so wherever is meant by “here”, Jesus was there.

Obviously, the Earth wasn’t yet created, so there was no “here” here.
 
There was no “here” in the constraints of human comprehension before creation. But it is quite clear that the Son (not the incarnate, who Jesus is) was present at creation of the “here”. As the Son who was with God was present at creation can be proven by our belief that the Son is the Word…and it was the Word (“Let there be…”) that was the command of execution of the will of the Father…and of course the Holy Spirit was present (the wind sweeping over the waters), making it clear that all three persons of the Holy Trinity had a hand in creation.
 
Bill_B_NY said:
Yes,
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No. The Son of God is the source of all life. Jesus, the incarnation was not present at the source of all life. When we claim Jesus, and not the Son, is the source of life we are denying the hypostatic union…although Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus as the incarnation did not exist until the 1st century.
 
Yes, but you’re making it sound like “Jesus the incarnation” is fundamentally a different person, being, entity than “Jesus the Son”. But that’s not true. The incarnation of Jesus was His sharing in the created universe. It was not the creation of a new person or being.
 
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Bill_B_NY said:
Yes, but you’re making it sound like “Jesus the incarnation” is fundamentally a different person,
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No. You aren’t following, Bill…I am discussing the different natures (divine and human) of the Son…there was no, and no need for, the Son in human form to participate in creation. The incarnation is an important part of the Salvation Economy, but did not occur until much later than creation.
 
dscath said:
No. You aren’t following, Bill…I am discussing the different natures (divine and human) of the Son…there was no, and no need for, the Son in human form to participate in creation. The incarnation is an important part of the Salvation Economy, but did not occur until much later than creation.
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Ok, I understand. A person may be confused and think that we believe that Jesus, who was born in Bethlehem, then after that point, created the all life.
Yes, that person would rightly think that Catholics are pretty strange if not totally insane.
But we could then explain, as you did, that Jesus has an eternal being, not bound by time. Jesus experienced birth, death and resurrection but He did not come into existence in the first century - He exists for all past and all future.
I would hope that would answer the question of this OP, which I didn’t understand anyway. Why is this a question? If the person really thinks we believe that the Incarnated Jesus created all life … I’d really like to hear about that.
 
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