Was Jesus unsure of His identity and mission?

[Epistemes]

As the Catechism reference provided in Post #5 infers, Jesus, in his human nature, grew in, was informed by, and became cognizant of his identity by his divine nature to the extent his comprehension and ability as a human person grew. Thus, when he was an embryo, for example, he had an embryo’s understanding. When he was a toddler, he had a tot’s understanding. When he was 12, and found in the Temple, he had a 12 year-old’s understanding. Finally, when he was a full-grown mature adult, he had the fullest understanding possible.

This was, at all those stages, accellerated, fuller and more intense, of course, than would be possible for us because Jesus did not have to struggle against the clouds of sin and confusion other humans do, plus he had the fullness of grace and divinity subsisting within his very person.

As of other questions which treat of the mysterious nature of God, the **HOW **of the matter is unquestionably above our puny comprehensions.

In other words, Jesus only knew he was God insofar that his progressive human nature was able to comprehend what his absolute divine nature was telling him.

 

[Fidelis]

In other words, Jesus only knew he was God insofar that his progressive human nature was able to comprehend what his absolute divine nature was telling him.

That is what the Catechism seems to be saying, yes.

After he was a fully mature adult, however, and given all of his perfections and his communion with God the Father, I can’t see many limits to his self-knowledge. After his resurrection, in his glorified state, I’m sure there were no limits at all.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi ,
Short answer–Of course not. Jesus knew before earth was even created He just didnt know when. But when God,the Father, said it was time, Jesus came as a human.The rest as we say is history:thumbsup:

 

[tdgesq]

That is what the Catechism seems to be saying, yes.

After he was a fully mature adult, however, and given all of his perfections and his communion with God the Father, I can’t see many limits to his self-knowledge. After his resurrection, in his glorified state, I’m sure there were no limits at all.

But even after adulthood, some limits. We heard it in the homily on Sunday. Not even the Son knows the time when God will call all on Earth to account, only the Father knows. After resurrection? It’s just too speculative from what I know. I can’t say one way or the other. Why are you so sure no limits at all Fidelis? I’m not saying you are wrong by the way.

 

[Fidelis]

But even after adulthood, some limits. We heard it in the homily on Sunday. Not even the Son knows the time when God will call all on Earth to account, only the Father knows. After resurrection? It’s just too speculative from what I know. I can’t say one way or the other. Why are you so sure no limits at all Fidelis? I’m not saying you are wrong by the way.

I agree with you on the first part, of course. Jesus had some limits during his adult earthly ministry, but whether they were self-imposed as part of his specific mission or due to his human nature is hard to say.

As far as after his resurrection, he does not seem to have any ***bodily ***limitations: he can pass through walls, he can make his identity hidden, he can disappear from one place and appear in another, he can ascend to heaven on his own power, etc. None of these things he was reported as doing before his resurrection. It seems to me– and this is just little fidelis talking – that a transformation in his physical characteristics would have a corresponding transformation in his internal qualities as well.

You are correct in saying this is all speculation, and in no way can be said “This is a fact” or “This is what the Church teaches.” What the Church teaches is pretty much contained in the Catechism sections cited above. Everything else is indeed speculation – as is everything when it comes meditating on the internal life of God. In the end, there’s really no way to know.

 

[VociMike]

The natures decides what a person can or cannot do, the person performs what the natures **can **do. The person possesses the nature, not vice versa. As such, my human nature dictates that I can raise my hand, that I think rationally, etc. and it is my person who performs these actions. It is also my human nature which inhibits me from flying, laying an egg, or being omniscient.

Why again should I be speaking of “persons” and not “natures”?

Because you said you “read nothing which says that Christ’s human nature was aware of the divine nature from the get-go.”

Natures are not aware of things. People are. Christ is one person. One person cannot have two awarenesses.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

… At a recent meeting the teacher said that she took comfort in knowing that even Jesus was unsure of his identity and mission. (I don’t understand why this is comforting.)… that would imply ignorance, which would imply imperfection in God. She said that Matthew and Luke more expressed Jesus’s humanity and John his divinity. What is the truth?

I tried to reply, but it got too long with all the many sources I quoted.

So…see here: **Was Jesus ever ignorant of his identity and mission?

Pope St. Pius X, in a decree of his Holy Office, June 5, 1918, taught that "[it can be called certain] that the soul of Christ was ignorant of nothing, but from the beginning knew all things in the Word, past, present, and future**" (D 2184), rejecting as false opinion the theory of the limited knowledge of the soul of Christ (D 2185). In St. Pius X’s refutation against the errors of the Modersnists, ***Lamentabili ***(1907), he condemns the proposition that “Christ did not always have the consciousness of His Messianic dignity.” (D 2035).

 

[Georgess]

Couple more points along the above lines …

Was it not the desire to ’ know ’ that led our first parents , to the sin of disobediance …may be the subtle lure of wanting to be " free " …of God - using the power of knowledge …a quest, modern man is still after … cloning and embryo stem cell research and so on …even as we are facing the mysterious rise of the epidemic of autism …with its incapacity to know or love …

We are told by St. Paul , how the Lord had emptied Himself … …choosing to be empty …that when the disciples ask about the last days, He could say ’ only The Father ’ knows of the day and time …(even as He is about to return , to The Father )

Solomon was told , that none to be born who would be as’ wise ’ as Solomon …

The Lord , choosing The WAY of Passion …of trust from love and dependance , as opposed to prideful freedom …accepting the little ways of the human person, to be truly one with His children , showing His concerns , with the everyday events of ordinary lives …

Knowledge puffs up… love builds up …He - who is Love …chooses Love …to be like us …

Feast of presentation of Bl. Mother today …and we , too can present our own little selves , with all our limitations …