Was John the Baptist literally Elijah?

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A few years ago my wife asked me about the passage in Matt. 11:14, she was stumped. So I did a critique on it, and I am now getting around to putting it on my website. It is short and sweet, but I think that I was able to tap into some good insights from the Church Fathers. Here it is litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Was+John+the+Baptist+really+Elijah%3F
If you read the whole context Matt 11:7-15 … Christ says John was Elijah returned. I don’t see any figurative language here.

Now why did John not recognize that he was Elijah ? Apparently God temporarily erased his former memory … until his second earthly mission was accomplished.
 
The Jews took the proclamation of Isiah too literal when he said: I heard off a voice in the desert crying out make straight your paths for the coming of our lord!
Note that would defend reincarnation… which of course dose not happen. That is according to the apostles. Just as one is subjected to die once then comes the judgement. John the baptized was the ideal of who Elijah was. John had power and authority just as Elijah did. John the baptist was the manifestation of one of the greatest prophets to cry out in the desert to make straight our paths for the lord. In this the prophet Isiah’s prophecy was fulfilled.
Just as the disciples realized that the prophet John had been beheaded Jesus told them that in fact Elijah did come. But John was in the same spirit that Elijah had.
 
BRB
If you read the whole context Matt 11:7-15 … Christ says John was Elijah returned. I don’t see any figurative language here.
Now why did John not recognize that he was Elijah ? Apparently God temporarily erased his former memory … until his second earthly mission was accomplished.
I think you are overlooking something Jesus said in Mark 9:11-12 at the same conversation but different testimony. It says that, “Elijah is to come first and will restore all things.” As St. Bede says, “He will restore all things, that is to say, those things which Malachi points out, saying, Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet, and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to be children, and the heart of the children to their fathers…” Jesus makes it clear that Elijah is to come, and He made it clear that he has come in a figurative way, much like the antichrist has come, is here, and will continue to come until the Antichrist comes at the end of time. 1 Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
 
But John was in the same spirit that Elijah had.
The same spirit yes … how else could John of had H.S. from the womb ? He was Elijah … fully confessed and perfected when he was taken up to heaven in chariot … and had his spirit put back into body of John. Everyone must see death … John’s death was Elijah’s also.

They were one and the same … so Christ tell us to hear and believe it.
 
The same spirit yes … how else could John of had H.S. from the womb ?
The same way the Blessed Virgin Mary did, by God’s grace. That does not equate, then, to Elijah and John the Baptist being the same person. What you are proposing, in effect, is the transmigration of souls - or reincarnation, take your pick.
 
What you are proposing, in effect, is the transmigration of souls .
Well how was Elijah suppost to return ? Bodily plopped down on earth as grown adult … after hundreds of years up in limbo, or somewhere where a human body would be allowed ?

Clearly the Jews accepted the possibility that John could be Elijah …or even Moses.

And both John and Christ accept the question of Jews as a legitimate one … John denied he was, Christ confirmed.

Now, who would have the better knowledge ? … Christ w/o a doubt.

If the question had been w/o merit … Christ would of indicated it were an impossibility.
 
If you read the whole context Matt 11:7-15 … Christ says John was Elijah returned. I don’t see any figurative language here.

Now why did John not recognize that he was Elijah ? Apparently God temporarily erased his former memory … until his second earthly mission was accomplished.
D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 14. He is Elias, &c. Not in person, but in spirit. (Luke i. 17) (Challoner) — John is here styled Elias, not in the same manner as those who taught the transmigration of souls; but the meaning is, that the precursor came in the spirit and virtue of Elias, and had the same fulness of the Holy Ghost. The Baptist is not undeservedly styled Elias, both for the austerity of his life, and for his sufferings. Elias upbraided Achab and Jezabel for their impieties, and was obliged to flee. John blamed the unlawful marriage of Herod and Herodias, and died for his virtue. (St. Jerome in St. Thomas Aquinas).

Also see Luke 1:17:

He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of fathers toward children and the disobedient to the understanding of the righteous, to prepare a people fit for the Lord."

Scripture is clearly talking about John the Baptist being Elijah in spirit and not literally.
 
Well how was Elijah suppost to return ? Bodily plopped down on earth as grown adult … after hundreds of years up in limbo, or somewhere where a human body would be allowed ?
Yes, though I don’t know if there will be any plopping sound or not.😃 In fact Elijah and Enoch will come just as they left the earth, they are the ones who are mentioned in Re. 11 as the 2 witnesses. litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/The+2+Witnesses+in+Rev.+11
 
D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 14. He is Elias, &c. Not in person, but in spirit. (Luke i. 17) (Challoner) — John is here styled Elias, not in the same manner as those who taught the transmigration of souls; but the meaning is, that the precursor came in the spirit and virtue of Elias, and had the same fulness of the Holy Ghost. The Baptist is not undeservedly styled Elias, both for the austerity of his life, and for his sufferings. Elias upbraided Achab and Jezabel for their impieties, and was obliged to flee. John blamed the unlawful marriage of Herod and Herodias, and died for his virtue. (St. Jerome in St. Thomas Aquinas).

Also see Luke 1:17:

He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of fathers toward children and the disobedient to the understanding of the righteous, to prepare a people fit for the Lord."

Scripture is clearly talking about John the Baptist being Elijah in spirit and not literally.
Yes, good ideas you have for us 👍

The Baptist had an amazing spirit within. Whether it was Elijah’s slightly transformed to prevent John from knowing he was Elijah in a new body … or perhaps he was a ‘spiritual clone’ of Elijah.

Scientist can now clone the body of animals … surely God could reduplicate one’s spirit … if it suited His purposes.
 
The same spirit yes … how else could John of had H.S. from the womb ? He was Elijah … fully confessed and perfected when he was taken up to heaven in chariot … and had his spirit put back into body of John. Everyone must see death … John’s death was Elijah’s also.
Okay, let’s get into this deeper. Your position is really untenable and for several reasons. The Holy Spirit is not the same thing as Elijah’s soul or personality. Having “the spirit of Elijah” does not mean that one is Elijah; rather, the expression (“spirit of Elijah”) refers to the charismatic, prophetic gifts that Elijah himself possessed. For example, if one reads 2 Kings 2:9-10, here, Elijah’s disciple Elisha asks to have a “double portion” of Elijah’s spirit, and Elijah tells him that his request will be granted if Elisha sees him taken up into heaven, which he does. Thereafter, Elisha, too, possesses power charismatic powers and is able to work miracles. So, the “spirit of Elijah” is merely the prophetic power and character that Elijah (the greatest of all the prophets) possessed; and John the Baptist received this very same prophetic power and character.

As for when John was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother’s womb (per Luke 1:15), this is directly depicted for us less than thirty verses later in Luke 1:41ff, which reads:
"When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the Fruit of your womb!”
This was the moment of John’s indwelling of the Holy Spirit, i.e., the moment when the unborn John was essentially “Baptized” into Christ. It was from this point on that he was empowered by God to be Christ’s prophet and precursor, i.e., even from his mother’s womb, for, John’s first ‘prophecy’ was when he leaped inside his mother as she who bore the eternal Word of God (Mary -the New Ark of the Covenant) entered his mother’s home. The unborn John knew this by the power of the Holy Spirit, and his own mother Elizabeth was filled with the Spirit through her unborn son’s prophetic power, inspiring her to prophesy herself and to testify to the fact that Mary bore the Messiah.
They were one and the same … so Christ tell us to hear and believe it.
They were not one and the same. Elijah and John were two different persons who shared the same Divinely-given prophetic office. That’s a big difference.
Well how was Elijah suppost to return ? Bodily plopped down on earth as grown adult … after hundreds of years up in limbo, or somewhere where a human body would be allowed ?
See Luke 9:29–31. It is interesting to note that, in the narrative of Luke’s Gospel, John the Baptist is still alive when the Transfiguration takes place. 🙂 So, was John both in prison and on the mountain with Jesus and Moses at the same time?
Clearly the Jews accepted the possibility that John could be Elijah …or even Moses.
He said that he was not either of them, i.e., not personally.
And both John and Christ accept the question of Jews as a legitimate one … John denied he was, Christ confirmed.
This is wrong. John denied that he was Elijah personally. He was responding to the Pharisees who were speaking literally. Christ claimed that John was Elijah in the sense that he held the place and office of Elijah and fulfilled the prophecy that “Elijah” (that is, a prophet like Elijah) would come before the Messiah to announce His coming.
Now, who would have the better knowledge ? … Christ w/o a doubt.
🙂 I see. So, John was ignorant of who he was??? That is, he was Elijah but he didn’t know it? Some prophet, if that’s the case! 😉 To be sensible, then, one must admit that it is inspired Scripture that records BOTH Christ’s reference to John as Elijah AND John’s denial that he is Elijah in a personal sense. Scripture cannot lie, and does not record lies. John spoke the truth within the context of his exchange with the Pharisees.
If the question had been w/o merit … Christ would of indicated it were an impossibility.
Reincarnation is not a Christian or a Mosaic Jewish belief (it is antithetical to both!), therefore, there was no need to address such an impossibility. John was of the seed of Zechariah and born of Elizabeth; he was a Levite and the descendant of Levitical priests. He was a unique creation of God, distinct from Elijah, who was a Tishbite, and not of Levitical descent. Also, Elijah was assumed into heaven both body and soul. John was born to Elizabeth and developed as a fetus in her womb. So, if John and Elijah are the same person, what happened to Elijah’s original body?? Clearly, the head and neck of John the Baptist, which were cut in twain in the palace of Herod Antipas, were not the same head and neck that Elijah the Tishbite had during his conflicts with Ahab and Jezebel 600 years earlier. And so, your idea that Elijah finally “died” through the martyrdom of the Baptist is, I’m afraid, silly, since the body that Herod killed was clearly not the body of Elijah - the body that was assumed into Heaven without dying. I’d say that you need to seriously re-think your theology here.Your understanding is not the understanding of the ancient, Apostolic Faith or what we see presented in the Bible.
 
Okay, let’s get into this deeper. Your position is really untenable and for several reasons. The Holy Spirit is not the same thing as Elijah’s soul or personality. Having “the spirit of Elijah” does not mean that one is Elijah; rather, the expression (“spirit of Elijah”) refers to the charismatic, prophetic gifts that Elijah himself possessed. For example, if one reads 2 Kings 2:9-10, here, Elijah’s disciple Elisha asks to have a “double portion” of Elijah’s spirit, and Elijah tells him that his request will be granted if Elisha sees him taken up into heaven, which he does. Thereafter, Elisha, too, possesses power charismatic powers and is able to work miracles. So, the “spirit of Elijah” is merely the prophetic power and character that Elijah (the greatest of all the prophets) possessed; and John the Baptist received this very same prophetic power and character.

As for when John was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother’s womb (per Luke 1:15), this is directly depicted for us less than thirty verses later in Luke 1:41ff, which reads:

This was the moment of John’s indwelling of the Holy Spirit, i.e., the moment when the unborn John was essentially “Baptized” into Christ. It was from this point on that he was empowered by God to be Christ’s prophet and precursor, i.e., even from his mother’s womb, for, John’s first ‘prophecy’ was when he leaped inside his mother as she who bore the eternal Word of God (Mary -the New Ark of the Covenant) entered his mother’s home. The unborn John knew this by the power of the Holy Spirit, and his own mother Elizabeth was filled with the Spirit through her unborn son’s prophetic power, inspiring her to prophesy herself and to testify to the fact that Mary bore the Messiah.

They were not one and the same. Elijah and John were two different persons who shared the same Divinely-given prophetic office. That’s a big difference.

See Luke 9:29–31. It is interesting to note that, in the narrative of Luke’s Gospel, John the Baptist is still alive when the Transfiguration takes place. 🙂 So, was John both in prison and on the mountain with Jesus and Moses at the same time?

He said that he was not either of them, i.e., not personally.

This is wrong. John denied that he was Elijah personally. He was responding to the Pharisees who were speaking literally. Christ claimed that John was Elijah in the sense that he held the place and office of Elijah and fulfilled the prophecy that “Elijah” (that is, a prophet like Elijah) would come before the Messiah to announce His coming.

🙂 I see. So, John was ignorant of who he was??? That is, he was Elijah but he didn’t know it? Some prophet, if that’s the case! 😉 To be sensible, then, one must admit that it is inspired Scripture that records BOTH Christ’s reference to John as Elijah AND John’s denial that he is Elijah in a personal sense. Scripture cannot lie, and does not record lies. John spoke the truth within the context of his exchange with the Pharisees.

Reincarnation is not a Christian or a Mosaic Jewish belief (it is antithetical to both!), therefore, there was no need to address such an impossibility. John was of the seed of Zechariah and born of Elizabeth; he was a Levite and the descendant of Levitical priests. He was a unique creation of God, distinct from Elijah, who was a Tishbite, and not of Levitical descent. Also, Elijah was assumed into heaven both body and soul. John was born to Elizabeth and developed as a fetus in her womb. So, if John and Elijah are the same person, what happened to Elijah’s original body?? Clearly, the head and neck of John the Baptist, which were cut in twain in the palace of Herod Antipas, were not the same head and neck that Elijah the Tishbite had during his conflicts with Ahab and Jezebel 600 years earlier. And so, your idea that Elijah finally “died” through the martyrdom of the Baptist is, I’m afraid, silly, since the body that Herod killed was clearly not the body of Elijah - the body that was assumed into Heaven without dying. I’d say that you need to seriously re-think your theology here.Your understanding is not the understanding of the ancient, Apostolic Faith or what we see presented in the Bible.
Frances … you are amazing. Incredibly insightful and learned !! Its hard to find fault with anything you write.

But, just two points.

Are you sure the Transfiguration came before John’s death from Herod ? What was the approx AD date of each event?

And, John dressed exactly like Elijah. Was this by coincidence ? Did not God wish for the Jews to recognize John as Elijah returned ?
 
Christ claimed that John was Elijah in the sense that he held the place and office of Elijah and fulfilled the prophecy that “Elijah” (that is, a prophet like Elijah) would come before the Messiah to announce His coming.

.
So, the ‘prophetic Elijah’ has come … and we should not expect him at some point in the future ?

Many Protestants and most Jews are still on the lookout for him.

Finally, how do we deal with the scripture that all men must see death. In case of Elijah and Enoch, and perhaps Moses since no one saw him die or knows of his grave site] … ?? Will they not have to return someday to earth and die.
 
Frances … you are amazing. Incredibly insightful and learned !! Its hard to find fault with anything you write.

But, just two points.

Are you sure the Transfiguration came before John’s death from Herod ? What was the approx AD date of each event?
Thanks so much, BRB; I’m happy I was able to be of some help to you in this. 🙂

The Transfiguration comes before John’s death in the narrative of Luke’s Gospel. But the ordering of events in the various Gospels are not necessarily historical. The Gospels are not historical annals, but theological works based upon historical reality. There is a difference.
What was the approx AD date of each event?
We don’t know this with any accuracy.
And, John dressed exactly like Elijah. Was this by coincidence ?
Not a coincideence; it was done as a sign.
Did not God wish for the Jews to recognize John as Elijah returned ?
God wished for the Jews to recognize that John was the fulfillment of the prophecy of Elijah’s return - that John, like Elisha before him, had succeeded to Elijah’s prophetic office and character. Elisha dressed like Elijah too. When Elijah called Elisha to be his successor, he threw his own cloak over Elisha’s shoulders, but Elisha was obviously a different person than Elijah. He merely succeeded to Elijah’s prophetic office and possessed the “spirit of Elijah”, i.e., the Spiritual charisms of a prophet that Elijah possessed.
So, the ‘prophetic Elijah’ has come … and we should not expect him at some point in the future?
Not necessarily. Elijah may appear again when Christ returns again. But, the prophecy which Jews expect to be fulfilled has already been fulfilled. One can see this if one attends an Orthodox Jewish Passover meal. The prayer that is recited when a place is made at the table for “Elijah” is as follows:

“Elijah, Elijah,
Hosanna to our Lord,
Blessed in He Who comes in the Name of the Lord,
Hosanna in the Highest.”

Catholics and Orthodox knows from our ancient liturgies, that this prayer does not refer to Elijah, but to the coming of the Messiah Himself. It is the Messiah that the Jews await and make a place for at every Passover meal. The reference to Elijah is only as the Messiah’s precursor, and St. John the Baptist already fulfilled this prophecy.
Many Protestants and most Jews are still on the lookout for him.
The Protestants who do this have been misled by distorted non-Christian Jewish belief and have lost sight of the true Apostolic Tradition.
Finally, how do we deal with the scripture that all men must see death.
I think what you are referring to is Heb 9:27, which says:

“It is appointed unto men to die once, and after this, the Judgement.”

The point of this verse (read it in context, starting with v. 26) is that men do not die again and again, and so Christ did not have to suffer more than once. It is not saying that all men must die, for, like Elijah, Enoch in Genesis 5 did not die, and Heb. 11:5 directly says that he did not experience death. Also, the Christians who are still alive when Christ returns in glory will not die. 1 Thess. 4:17 directly says that they, like Enoch and Elijah, will be assumed into Heaven and not experience physical death.
In case of Elijah and Enoch, and perhaps Moses since no one saw him die or knows of his grave site] … ?? Will they not have to return someday to earth and die.
No, per the above.
 
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