Was John the Baptist without personal sin?

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whoisdiss

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I know the Church teaches John the Baptist was freed from original sin six months after his conception and was born with no original sin, but I also heard Catholics can believe if they choose to, that John the Baptist had no personal sin either. Personally, I’d be open to this idea. But I just want to confirm that as Catholics we can believe it if we want too.
 
Not sure from where you got that idea.

RCs believe that only Mary, the BVM was conceived and lived without sin ( and of course, her Son).

John was a fiery preacher/reformer so I expect he was frequently guilty of Anger, whether as a sin or not is debateable. John was just an ordinary man so it is most probably that he sinned like every other human being who carries the stain of Original Sin.
 
whoisdiss said:
I know the Church teaches John the Baptist was freed from original sin six months after his conception and was born with no original sin, but I also heard Catholics can believe if they choose to, that John the Baptist had no personal sin either. Personally, I’d be open to this idea. But I just want to confirm that as Catholics we can believe it if we want too.
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I don’t think the church teaches any of that. 🤷
 
Cromwell4 said:
Not sure from where you got that idea.

RCs believe that only Mary, the BVM was conceived and lived without sin ( and of course, her Son).

John was a fiery preacher/reformer so I expect he was frequently guilty of Anger, whether as a sin or not is debateable. John was just an ordinary man so it is most probably that he sinned like every other human being who carries the stain of Original Sin.
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We’ll, sort of…john was conceived in sin, unlike Christ or the Blessed Virgin, and there are no claims he lived without sin by the Church.

However, it has been claimed by many (including Fr Mitch Pacwa) that he was born (as opposed to conceived) without original sin. Scriptural evidence comes from Luke 1:41 where the baby (john) leaped for joy in the womb of Elizabeth when she was filled by the Holy Spirit.

Peace and all good!
 
Neofight said:
We’ll, sort of…john was conceived in sin, unlike Christ or the Blessed Virgin, and there are no claims he lived without sin by the Church.

However, it has been claimed by many (including Fr Mitch Pacwa) that he was born (as opposed to conceived) without original sin. Scriptural evidence comes from Luke 1:41 where the baby (john) leaped for joy in the womb of Elizabeth when she was filled by the Holy Spirit.

Peace and all good!
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To say “a baby kicks in it’s moms womb” is evidence of freedom of sin is…frankly… Silly.
 
Neofight said:
We’ll, sort of…john was conceived in sin, unlike Christ or the Blessed Virgin, and there are no claims he lived without sin by the Church.

However, it has been claimed by many (including Fr Mitch Pacwa) that he was born (as opposed to conceived) without original sin. Scriptural evidence comes from Luke 1:41 where the baby (john) leaped for joy in the womb of Elizabeth when she was filled by the Holy Spirit.

Peace and all good!
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It is a church teaches that John the Baptist was born without original sin, but that when he leaped in his mothers womb his original sin was washed. Alot of Catholic’s don’t know that and are surprised to find out. What I’m trying to find out is if it’s acceptable to believe John the Baptist had no personal sin at all.
 
Jon_S said:
I don’t think the church teaches any of that. 🤷
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It is a church teaches that John the Baptist was born without original sin, but that when he leaped in his mothers womb his original sin was washed. Alot of Catholic’s don’t know that and are surprised to find out. What I’m trying to find out is if it’s acceptable to believe John the Baptist had no personal sin at all.
 
whoisdiss said:
It is a church teaches that John the Baptist was born without original sin, but that when he leaped in his mothers womb his original sin was washed. Alot of Catholic’s don’t know that and are surprised to find out. What I’m trying to find out is if it’s acceptable to believe John the Baptist had no personal sin at all.
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Can you provide a source…catechism reference or something.
 
It is not acceptable – it is total rubbish.

No mainsteam Christian sect/Church ever taught that.
Only Mary was without sin in the entire Creation.

But then again you could say Lucifer was ‘born’/created without Original Sin. LOL
 
From the Navarre Bible (pretty respectable source)…

Although he was conceived in sin—original sin—like other men, St John the Baptist was born sinless because he was sanctified in his mother’s womb by the presence of Jesus Christ (then in Mary’s womb) and of the Blessed Virgin. On receiving this grace of God St John rejoices by leaping with joy in his mother’s womb—thereby fulfilling the archangel’s prophecy (cf. Lk 1:15).

Saint Luke’s Gospel. (2005). (p. 35). Dublin; New York: Four Courts Press; Scepter
 
Neofight said:
From the Navarre Bible (pretty respectable source)…

Although he was conceived in sin—original sin—like other men, St John the Baptist was born sinless because he was sanctified in his mother’s womb by the presence of Jesus Christ (then in Mary’s womb) and of the Blessed Virgin. On receiving this grace of God St John rejoices by leaping with joy in his mother’s womb—thereby fulfilling the archangel’s prophecy (cf. Lk 1:15).

Saint Luke’s Gospel. (2005). (p. 35). Dublin; New York: Four Courts Press; Scepter
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As is pointed out in Akin’s article, this is the Holy Spirit coming on original sin stained John the Baptist.

It is as if he was baptized.

So if you want to say he was born without THE STAIN of original sin as a newborn is freed from the stain in baptism, then whatever I guess.

But this is absolutely and completely fundamentally different than the blessed mother and Jesus.
 
Jon_S said:
As is pointed out in Akin’s article, this is the Holy Spirit coming on original sin stained John the Baptist.

It is as if he was baptized.

So if you want to say he was born without THE STAIN of original sin as a newborn is freed from the stain in baptism, then whatever I guess.

But this is absolutely and completely fundamentally different than the blessed mother and Jesus.
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I never implied that…Go back and you will read that I clearly stated JB was conceived in sin, and was not free of sin throughout his life (as were Christ and the Blessed Virgin).

And, yes, as you say, “he was born without THE STAIN of original sin as a newborn is freed from the stain in baptism”.

Although I don’t quite understand the “whatever”🤷
 
If John the Baptist was without sin, then this statement by Jesus makes no sense:

Matthew 11:11
Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Plus we have the testimony that even though John recognized Jesus in the Jordan river when he baptized Jesus, and even though John saw the vision of the of the Holy Spirit and heard the voice of God immediately after the baptism, John still fell into doubt and despair when he was imprisoned.

Matthew 11:2-3
Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, “Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?”
 
Nan_S said:
If John the Baptist was without sin, then this statement by Jesus makes no sense:

Matthew 11:11
Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Plus we have the testimony that even though John recognized Jesus in the Jordan river when he baptized Jesus, and even though John saw the vision of the of the Holy Spirit and heard the voice of God immediately after the baptism, John still fell into doubt and despair when he was imprisoned.

Matthew 11:2-3
Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, “Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?”
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You’re not keeping up with the thread…this discussion is not about JB being without sin, it is only about him being born (and not conceived, either) without the stain of Original Sin.
 
The Church teaches that John the Baptist was conceived in original sin but not born in it.

CCC 717 “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.” John was “filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb” by Christ himself, whom the Virgin Mary had just conceived by the Holy Spirit. Mary’s visitation to Elizabeth thus became a visit from God to his people.
 
whoisdiss said:
I know the Church teaches John the Baptist was freed from original sin six months after his conception and was born with no original sin, but** I also heard Catholics can believe if they choose to, that John the Baptist had no personal sin either. Personally, I’d be open to this idea. But I just want to confirm that as Catholics we can believe it if we want too.**
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Neofight said:
You’re not keeping up with the thread…this discussion is not about JB being without sin, it is only about him being born (and not conceived, either) without the stain of Original Sin.
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I know you’re focused on John’s birth. My response was to the OP’s original question, specifically whether a belief that John was without personal sin was acceptable.

My answer to the OP’s original question is that scripture says John despaired and doubted Jesus, and although the greatest of men is still less than the least in heaven. This strongly implies that John did have personal sin.

But please feel free to refocus the thread on John’s birth, before he had a chance to commit personal sin.
 
whoisdiss said:
I know the Church teaches John the Baptist was freed from original sin six months after his conception and was born with no original sin, but I also heard Catholics can believe if they choose to, that John the Baptist had no personal sin either. Personally, I’d be open to this idea. But I just want to confirm that as Catholics we can believe it if we want too.
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John the Baptist was sinful. The bible states that everybody, except for Jesus, sins.
 
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