Was just listening to Mormon General Conference (wife is LDS)

[Stephen168]

Sigh …This is exactly the sort of stuff that really annoys me now. Do more for Easter? :banghead:

I’ve observed that is a theme in Mormonism; “If I say it, it is true.” And follow up questions are ignored.

 

[lax16]

I’m an African American Latter-day Saint Just had to share that .

Welcome!

What do you think of Hinckley’s description of how and why the ban was lifted?
Why would it take until 1978 - would God really do that?
Why would God give the LDS church a feeling that it was the right time when everyone else outside of Mormonism knows it was a result of outside pressure and the need to prosletyze Africa to offset the numbers of LDS that are being lost in the U.S.?

Gordon Hinckley
President Gordon B. Hinckley is the 15th president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He has led the church since March 1995.

We’ve spoken to a lot of people about the significance of that 1978 revelation. Blacks and whites and Mormons describe it as one of the most extraordinary moments in the church’s history in the 20th century. I haven’t spoken to anybody who was there, but I have read what you’ve said and written about that moment. Can you talk about it?

**It was a landmark occasion. We were in the temple. We gathered in prayer, and President [Spencer] Kimball led in prayer, and he talked about it. It had been on his mind for a good while. And as he prayed, he talked with the Lord about it, and there just settled over us a feeling that this is the right thing; the time has come; now is the opportunity. And on the basis of that we proceeded. **

In some of your speeches and writings on the subject, you also used language that I would love to know more about. You felt that a conduit to God had opened up and almost a Pentecostal spirit [was there] in the room.

**No, it wasn’t like any other moment. There was something of a Pentecostal spirit. But on the other hand it was peaceful, quiet, not a cataclysmic thing in any sense. There was just a feeling that came over all of us, and we knew that it was the right thing at the right time and that we should proceed. And this made all the difference in the world. We’ve grown strong in Africa and in Brazil and in other places. There is no race bias among us. It’s been well received all over the church, and I’m satisfied in my own mind as one who was there that the right thing happened at the right time in the right way. **

I gather for President Kimball it was something he brought to the Lord on many occasions, that he prayed night after night. Is that true?

**That’s my understanding. This was not just all of a sudden. This had been on his mind for a good long time. He had prayed about it, worried about it, talked about it. And then it happened. **

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Everything about Mormonism is PR. They employ one of the largest and most prestigious PR firms in the world. They spend a lot of money on it. I live here in the middle of Mormondom and every time there is a natural disaster in the world the Mormon Church is always Johnny on the spot, which is commendable. But, the planes to haul the goods aren’t even located before all of the news agencies are notoified to the exact time they are to be loaded and take off. Every time this happens you see a five minute spot on every local channel showing the planes being loaded and taking off. So much for doing your alms in private.

Yeah, tell me about it. Or those insidious yellow shirts they wear during disaster relief explicitly identifying themselves as Mormons. They’ve taken it to a whole new level with the “And I’m Mormon” campaign you see all over the net. The more the Mormon PR machine does, the larger my contempt for LDS Inc. becomes.

 

[Prince_Hal]

Yeah, tell me about it. Or those insidious yellow shirts they wear during disaster relief explicitly identifying themselves as Mormons. They’ve taken it to a whole new level with the “And I’m Mormon” campaign you see all over the net. The more the Mormon PR machine does, the larger my contempt for LDS Inc. becomes.

I agree that it is annoying to hear such bragging by the LDS people and their leaders. I often hear it said that Mormon youth are the finest in the world due to their abstinence from sex and alcohol. And of course every single LDS youth who respects their body and abstains from sex before marriage rightly deserves praise. LDS families rightly deserve praise and respect for the closeness that they seek and often achieve. Every LDS Home and Visiting Teacher deserve praise for the charitable work that they do.

However… where the LDS church can improve is regarding the motive for doing all these things. As many others have said, there is guilt laden through much of their service. Also, almost everything they do is either within the fold of Mormonism or as a missionary tool. Why don the yellow “Mormon Helping Hands” vest? To show others that they are
Mormons and they are helping and you should join them. Bring people to the LDS church, not necessarily to God or Christ. It is that motive that frustrates me. Now of course Mormons think that by bringing people to the church they are bringing them to Christ.

When I was a missionary I was taught “teach or terminate”. If the investigator was not coming along closer to LDS baptism, then move on. Catch the low hanging fruit, the other are obviously not ready.

Anyway, lets praise our LDS brethren for the good that they do. Let’s be wise to see through the rhetoric and the PR, and let’s see what extra sacrifices that we can make for God.

God bless,

Hal.

 

[Jessup]

I usually go to general conference every year with my LDS friends. I didn’t go this year. I love going to the general conference.

 

[El_Confundido]

Yeah, tell me about it. Or those insidious yellow shirts they wear during disaster relief explicitly identifying themselves as Mormons. They’ve taken it to a whole new level with the “And I’m Mormon” campaign you see all over the net. The more the Mormon PR machine does, the larger my contempt for LDS Inc. becomes.

I know, right!? And what about those insidious white, Roman collars they wear while they’re doling out charitable goods and educating intercity youth… oh wait a minute!

 

[PaulDupre]

I know, right!? And what about those insidious white, Roman collars they wear while they’re doling out charitable goods and educating intercity youth… oh wait a minute!

The difference is that Catholic priests don’t carry a film crew with them wherever they go. LDS Charities does. Matt 6:1-4

 

[Ellie_F]

As much as I disagree with them I’ll give Mormons this, they do sacrifice. Most boys spend two years isolated from their families on a mission trip that they pay for, and many girls do too. Most of them do tithe the full 10% (most other religious people don’t) and almost all of their members are involved in relief society. Most other churches only have a small portion of their congregation that serve in things like that. Its church on Sunday and then they’re done.

Not to mention how they all follow the word of wisdom. Seriously, they abstain from coffee and tea, while many Catholics won’t give up birth control and many Baptists drink.

It’s possible in your experience ALL mormons you know follow the word of wisdom. But having lived in utah for decades, I can tell you that is decidedly not true. None of us follows our faith perfectly. But one should do good deeds out of love for God and His creation, not out of a need for praise.

You’re correct; many do tithe 10% and go on missions…but it’s basically required. If you don’t tithe 10%, go on a mission, and mark off other things on the good mormon checklist, you don’t get into the temple and you aren’t recognized as a good mormon here on earth or after.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I know, right!? And what about those insidious white, Roman collars they wear while they’re doling out charitable goods and educating intercity youth… oh wait a minute!

Epic fail in trying to equate the collar with the t-shirt. In our parish of 3600 families 5 wear a the collar, it’s very small, hard to see unless you are looking for it. It identifies a man as a bishop, priest or deacon.
The “helping hands” shirt on the other hand is bright yellow to maximize visibility, with the LDS logo plastered on both the front and back of the t-shirt. There is a massive difference in visibility between the two.

Two US aircraft shot down in Iran

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www.minotdailynews.com

Not only is it designed to call attention to the wearer but it is worn by ALL participant for a number of specific reasons and has some startling guidelines and expectations for its use.
From the CoJCoLDS PDF Mormon Helping Hands Guidelines for Public Affairs Directors:

[Objectives for Mormon Helping Hands
Help the Needy and Improve Communities
Service to others is an important characteristic of the followers of Jesus Christ. Mormon Helping Hands
provides organized opportunities for Church members to give their time and talents to bless those in
need. It also gives members the opportunity to beautify city streets, parks, schools, and recreational
areas and to serve in other ways, showing that the Church is a friend to the community.
Strengthen Church Members
Through Mormon Helping Hands, youth and adults become more sensitive to the challenges others face.
]As Church members follow the example of the Savior in reaching out and helping others,
**]**their testimonies are strengthened

. These projects are also valuable opportunities for Church members to fellowship
less-active friends.
Share the Gospel Indirectly
Through Mormon Helping Hands, Church members have opportunities to portray the fruits of their faith
and dispel unfounded criticism and prejudice toward the Church. While this program is not to be used
for proselyting,** these activities can help create conditions that are favorable for gospel conversations
and may on occasion provide the opportunity to engage missionaries in teaching those who want to
know more.**
Build Relationships with Opinion Leaders
Church Public Affairs exists to “build strategic relationships with opinion leaders who affect the
reputation
of the Church of Jesus Christ.” Service is a powerful tool for influencing the beliefs and opinions
of prominent individuals. Mormon Helping Hands is especially effective in developing beneficial
relationships between Church leaders and government officials or other opinion leaders.
Enhance the Reputation of the Church
Mormon Helping Hands helps bring the Church out of obscurity and can greatly improve its reputation.
Local media interest in these projects helps spread the knowledge of the Church to many who would not
otherwise hear of it.
Organizers of these projects should always consider building relationships to be an important objective. Projects
completed in cooperation with government and civic leaders generally produce the best results and build
the strongest relationships. Church Humanitarian Services representatives may be a good source for project
ideas and opportunities.

cont.

 

[zaffiroborant]

cont.

Safeguard the Use of Vests or T-Shirts
When wearing Mormon Helping Hands vests or T-shirts, individuals represent The Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints and must be careful to safeguard the Church’s reputation. The vest or T-shirt must be
worn only during the actual project. Any other use is inappropriate and discouraged. When the vest or …
T-shirt becomes permanently soiled or worn out, it should be destroyed.
How long should projects last?
Answer Projects should not commit volunteers for long
periods of time. With sufficient numbers of
volunteers and adequate planning,** an activity
lasting half a day or less can accomplish
a tremendous amount of good.**
Question What do participants wear?
Answer Participants should wear yellow vests or T-shirts imprinted with the Mormon Helping Hands logo
whenever possible, along with clothing that is appropriate to the type of service being rendered.
Question Why use the vests or T-shirts?
Answer The vest or T-shirt is an important element of the Mormon Helping Hands program. It identifies
the Church as the organization providing the service, instills confidence in those being served
that the work will be organized and of high quality, and gives Church members a sense of satisfaction
to be identified with other Latter-
day Saints. In disaster relief situations, the shirt or vest
may also help officials quickly identify those they can call on for a particular assignment.
Is it more appropriate to use vests or T-shirts?
Answer Vests are the preferred choice in most cases since they are less likely to be mistaken for everyday
clothing and carried off or worn for activities not associated
with a Mormon Helping Hands project.
Vests may also be less expensive than T-shirts and can be worn over other clothing in cases
of cool or inclement weather. In situations where a loose-fitting vest might prove hazardous (for
example, using chainsaws and other power equipment), a T-shirt is generally the better choice.
Question What guidelines should govern the use of the Mormon Helping Hands vest or T-shirt?
Answer Church members who wear the T-shirt or vest represent the Church as they serve and should be
aware that their conduct reflects on the Church as a whole. Vests or shirts should only be used for
Mormon Helping Hands projects.
Question Who pays for Mormon Helping Hands T-shirts and vests?
Answer Local unit budgets or local members should pay for vests and T-shirts for non–disaster relief
projects.
When the Church’s Humanitarian Emergency Response participates in disaster relief
efforts, a supply of vests and T-shirts is often included as part of the relief shipment.
Question Is more information available on how to produce the T-shirts and vests?
Answer Instructions, color specifications, and electronic logo art for local T-shirtsor vests are available in
this publication and from Church Public Affairs offices worldwide.
The logo pictured on this page has been approved by the First Presidency and should supersede all previous
logos.* When used properly and consistently, it will become a recognized symbol of the Church’s good works.
Proper Logo Usage
The logo represents the Church and its members, and
every precaution must be taken to ensure its integrity.
Each use of the logo should strictly comply with the
following guidelines:
• Use only the official logo obtained from Church Public
Affairs offices. Do not try to re-create it.
• Print the logo on a plain yellow vest or T-shirt that
matches as closely as possible the yellow-colored
field behind the hands on the logo. Where yellow
shirts and vests are not available, a white shirt or vest
may be substituted.
• On the back of the shirt, use the provided logo at
100% of original size to fit comfortably on an adult
vest or T-shirt. The words “Mormon Helping Hands”
and the official Church logo should be easily visible
from several feet away. On the front of the shirt, the
logo may be used at full size or reduced to approximately
40% of original size to fit in the space where
a pocket would normally be found (see examples
below). For children’s sizes, reduce the logo as appropriate.
• Do not mix the logo with any other patterns, symbols, logos, or other competing elements, including the
logos or marks of partnering organizations (if any).
• The logo may be used for other items, including posters or flyers, or in presentations to promote the
service project or recruit volunteers.

Sorry but your t-shirts are nothing like the collar.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

The words “Mormon Helping Hands”
and the official Church logo should be easily visible
from several feet away.

Like the LDS logos they put on the wheelchairs they “donate”

 

[twopekinguys]

Like the LDS logos they put on the wheelchairs they “donate”

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_puyBH0Hw6Sw/SuOnSbKRukI/AAAAAAAAA8E/4UE1AzOQW8s/s400/hHidalgotitlán11,+LDS+Wheelchair1.JPG

When my mother passed away, she had one of those electric scooter chairs that was less than 3 months old.

We found a young special needs child that could use it, and made arrangements through friends of a friend to donate it to him. They wanted to put a plaque on it saying “Donated by…”, but we adamantly refused. In fact, my exact words were, “We aren’t in it for the recognition, we’re only in it to help.”

Matthew 6:4 (NIV) so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

 

[Janderich]

Also, almost everything they do is either within the fold of Mormonism or as a missionary tool. Why don the yellow “Mormon Helping Hands” vest? To show others that they are Mormons and they are helping and you should join them. Bring people to the LDS church, not necessarily to God or Christ. It is that motive that frustrates me. Now of course Mormons think that by bringing people to the church they are bringing them to Christ.

So let me see if I understand…

• We wear yellow “Mormon Helping Hands” shirts or vest to let other know we are Mormons.
• We hope that some may see our good works and join the church.
• When people join the church we believe we are bringing them to Christ.

How could we be so terrible! Wearing t-shirts with the hope of bring people to Christ! What horrible people!

Note: I can understand you don’t believe the LDS church equates to bringing people to Christ. But why question the motive? Don’t those of the Catholic faith want to bring people to Christ? So if you want the same thing as us why do you question our motive? Question the result if you must, but not the motive.

 

[zaffiroborant]

So let me see if I understand…

• We wear yellow “Mormon Helping Hands” shirts or vest to let other know we are Mormons.
• We hope that some may see our good works and join the church.
• When people join the church we believe we are bringing them to Christ.

How could we be so terrible! Wearing t-shirts with the hope of bring people to Christ! What horrible people!

Note: I can understand you don’t believe the LDS church equates to bringing people to Christ. But why question the motive? Don’t those of the Catholic faith want to bring people to Christ? So if you want the same thing as us why do you question our motive? Question the result if you must, but not the motive.

The helping hands t-shirt is plain and simple advertising for the LDS church. You have done it for years and the most egregious example is the wheelchair picture posted above. What a golden opportunity, here are people bound to elicit sympathy, and something designed to facilitate their movement in public, is shanghaied into advertising the LDS church. Turning these people into living billboards for the church is revolting. Really how would you regard it if poverty stricken disabled people were given wheelchairs from the Obama campaign and plastered on the back was Obama for President, after all those people sincerely believe Obama is the best man for the job.

What we have in the “helping hands” t-shirt a perfect example of the LDS church owned advertising agency with their trademarked “Heartsell”

Our unique strength is the ability to touch the hearts and minds of our audiences, evoking first feeling, then thought and, finally, action. We call this uniquely powerful brand of creative "HeartSell"® - strategic emotional advertising that stimulates response.

What we have in the wheelchair “charity” is exploitation of some of the most vulnerable people in society. Requiring the in the most basic aspect of their lives, moving about among their fellow men, the advertise for the LDS church.

I would like to know where we were told that taking care, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and so on had an ulterior motive. From what I see we were just told to do it. And as has been pointed out we are supposed to do it in secret.

On another note if you read the* Mormon Helping Hands Guidelines for Public Affairs Directors* PDF (if you’d like to read it you can down load it here) you’ll see that it’s entire focus is not on “bring people to Christ” but instead on enhancing the image of the LDS church. Image is a big concern for the LDS church as shown by the LDS US Secretary of Agriculture who felt the need to contact the LDS Presidency concerning a meeting with the Pope, requested by the US Ambassador to Italy.