Was kneeling during Sunday forbidden at Nicea?

[chrisb]

During the Council of Nicea, was kneeling during the Sunday Liturgy forbidden?

 

[Dan-Man916]

According to the book, “Pilgrim Church, A Popular History of Catholic Christianity”, by William Bausch, it states that:

the practice of kneeling at prayer on Sundays, and during the time between Easter and Pentecost was condemned. Inasmuch as the Eastern position of prayer was standing, kneeling was condemned, then todlerated, then, and then, in the West, became the normal praying position.

Twenty-Third Publications, ninth printing of revised edition, 2007, page 84.

However, the Bausch text is not foot-noted that well, and I find that it is very simplistic in the way it presents Church history, so, IMO, take it for what it’s worth.

 

[chrisb]

According to the book, “Pilgrim Church, A Popular History of Catholic Christianity”, by William Bausch, it states that:

Twenty-Third Publications, ninth printing of revised edition, 2007, page 84.

However, the Bausch text is not foot-noted that well, and I find that it is very simplistic in the way it presents Church history, so, IMO, take it for what it’s worth.

I read this in a Latin Parish Bulletin and I responded so…

"In western Christianity, kneeling came to mean simple humility and submission, and so kneeling became the normal posture for most prayers in the west. However, to eastern Christians, kneeling still means repentance or supplication."

But even on our own assumptions, this conclusion doesn’t seem follow. No one has ever shown that kneeling is incompatible with praise and thanksgiving. In fact, the inspired Word of God teaches us just the opposite.

The prophet Daniel says: “And I knelt down on my knees three times a day to give thanks and praise to God” (Dn 6:11).

Interestingly, this passage is considered by Jews to be the basis for the three regular times of prayer at the synagogue. Moreover, the Liturgy of the Eucharist, as is generally recognized, is rooted in the Jewish Berakah (Gk: <eulogia>, Lt: <benedictio>). The Hebrew root of <Berakah> means to genuflect or kneel, and there were genuflections in the developed Jewish form of this prayer.

Should we not recognize that Rome and the North African Church predate Constantinople and Byzantine Traditions and that our traditions are much more influenced by Jewish practices than the practices of the Gentile Court? Perhaps this illuminates why the Byzantine Traditions developed their own piety in the face of these Gentile sensibilities but I get the impression that we get our tradition of Genuflection and Kneeling from Jewish Traditions. Maybe it’s not such a great idea using the Eastern Church as a means of countering our own?

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Should we not recognize that Rome and the North African Church predate Constantinople and Byzantine Traditions and that our traditions are much more influenced by Jewish practices than the practices of the Gentile Court? Perhaps this illuminates why the Byzantine Traditions developed their own piety in the face of these Gentile sensibilities but I get the impression that we get our tradition of Genuflection and Kneeling from Jewish Traditions. Maybe it’s not such a great idea using the Eastern Church as a means of countering our own?

First, the Roman tradition arises in the 4th century while the Byzantine traditions are already in place by the 3rd century so it’s hard to see why there is a claim that the Roman and North African (presumably Alexandrian) traditions are earlier than Byzantine. The Alexandrian tradition would have been consistent with the traditions found in the Liturgy of St. James (the primary source for the Liturgy of St. Mark) so standing would have been the common form of prayer.

Genuflection, however, arises from Roman tradition. While the Jews had a type of genuflection, it is more what the Byzantines would call a “Great Metany” than a simple genuflection.

BTW, I’m not sure where you got the idea that “Berakah” meant genuflection – it’s really “blessing.”

Deacon Ed

 

[Patchunky]

From the 1st Council of Nicea in 325 A.D.

Cannon 20:
Since there are some who kneel on Sunday and during the season of Pentecost, this holy synod decrees that, so that the same observances may be maintained in every diocese, one should offer one’s prayers to the Lord standing.:byzsoc:

Hope this helps…

 

[chrisb]

BTW, I’m not sure where you got the idea that “Berakah” meant genuflection – it’s really “blessing.”

Deacon Ed

Grace and Peace Deacon Ed,

I found it discussed in this on EWTN website…

ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/STANKNEL.TXT

By Joseph Fessio, S.J.

BTW, isn’t the Father speaking about the ‘root’ of Berakah and not Berakah itself?

 

[chrisb]

From the 1st Council of Nicea in 325 A.D.

Cannon 20:
Since there are some who kneel on Sunday and during the season of Pentecost, this holy synod decrees that, so that the same observances may be maintained in every diocese, one should offer one’s prayers to the Lord standing.:byzsoc:

Hope this helps…

Thanks for the actual Cannon… So this was a means to ‘keep the same observances’?

 

[Badaliyyah]

Should we not recognize that Rome and the North African Church predate Constantinople and Byzantine Traditions and that our traditions are much more influenced by Jewish practices than the practices of the Gentile Court? Perhaps this illuminates why the Byzantine Traditions developed their own piety in the face of these Gentile sensibilities but I get the impression that we get our tradition of Genuflection and Kneeling from Jewish Traditions. Maybe it’s not such a great idea using the Eastern Church as a means of countering our own?

Obviously, for most of the people on this particular forum, the “Eastern Church” is “our own”. But even leaving that aside, kneeling for prayers amongst Latins was not the normal custom until quite late from what I gather (much later than I was expecting).

See this thread, with particular attention given to Nightstalkers answers.

Of course the fact that they needed a Canon on the matter suggests someone was kneeling during the liturgy, and one would assume given the mention of Sundays and Pentecost that this was thought to be inappropriate because these are not liturgical moments which focus on penitence. So it would be interesting to know who and why.

salaam.

 

[chrisb]

Obviously, for most of the people on this particular forum, the “Eastern Church” is “our own”. But even leaving that aside, kneeling for prayers amongst Latins was not the normal custom until quite late from what I gather (much later than I was expecting).

See this thread, with particular attention given to Nightstalkers answers.

Of course the fact that they needed a Canon on the matter suggests someone was kneeling during the liturgy, and one would assume given the mention of Sundays and Pentecost that this was thought to be inappropriate because these are not liturgical moments which focus on penitence. So it would be interesting to know who and why.

salaam.

Thanks for sharing…

As I recall wasn’t there a bit of anti-Jewish fervor during Nicea? Wasn’t there an attempt to distance Christianity from Judaism? Am I thinking of a different council?

Thinking that kneeling is particularly penitential seems to be the issue. The prophet Daniel says: “And I knelt down on my knees three times a day to give thanks and praise to God” (Dn 6:11).

Daniel didn’t seem to think kneeling was penitential as he did so to give thanks and praise to God… where did this idea that kneeling was penitential come from the Gentile Courts?

 

[benedictgal]

I know that this treats the issue of Nicea, but, I think that Pope Benedict offers us some solid points for reflection. The first comes from the homily that he preached when he put into place the practice of kneeling and receiving Holy Communion oin the tongue during Papal liturgies:

At this point we cannot forget the beginning of the “Decalogue”, the Ten Commandments, where it is written: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me” (Ex 20: 2-3). Here we find the meaning of the third constitutive element of Corpus Christi: kneeling in adoration before the Lord. Adoring the God of Jesus Christ, who out of love made himself bread broken, is the most effective and radical remedy against the idolatry of the past and of the present. Kneeling before the Eucharist is a profession of freedom: those who bow to Jesus cannot and must not prostrate themselves before any earthly authority, however powerful. We Christians kneel only before God or before the Most Blessed Sacrament because we know and believe that the one true God is present in it, the God who created the world and so loved it that he gave his Only Begotten Son (cf. Jn 3: 16). We prostrate ourselves before a God who first bent over man like the Good Samaritan to assist him and restore his life, and who knelt before us to wash our dirty feet. Adoring the Body of Christ, means believing that there, in that piece of Bread, Christ is really there, and gives true sense to life, to the immense universe as to the smallest creature, to the whole of human history as to the most brief existence. Adoration is prayer that prolongs the celebration and Eucharistic communion and in which the soul continues to be nourished: it is nourished with love, truth, peace; it is nourished with hope, because the One before whom we prostrate ourselves does not judge us, does not crush us but liberates and transforms us.

The second reference comes to us from Spirit fo the Liturgy, his best book on the liturgy:

Kneeling does not come from any culture – it comes from the Bible and its knowledge of God. The central importance of kneeling in the Bible can be seen in a very concrete way. The word proskynein alone occurs fifty-nine times in the New Testament, twenty-four of which are in the Apocalypse, the book of the heavenly Liturgy, which is presented to the Church as the standard for her own Liturgy.

…When kneeling becomes merely external, a merely physical act, it becomes meaningless. One the other hand, when someone tries to take worship back into the purely spiritual realm and refuses to give it embodied form, the act of worship evaporates, for what is purely spiritual is inappropriate to the nature of man. Worship is one of those fundamental acts that affect the whole man. That is why bending the knee before the presence of the living God is something we cannot abandon.

In saying this, we come to the typical gesture of kneeling on one or both knees. In the Hebrew of the Old Testament, the verb barak, “to kneel”, is cognate with the word berek, “knee”. The Hebrews regarded the knees as a symbol of strength, to bend the knee is, therefore, to bend our strength before the living God, an acknowledgment of the fact that all that we are we receive from Him. In important passages of the Old Testament, this gesture appears as an expression of worship.

…The Acts of the Apostles tells us how Saint Peter (9:40), Saint Paul (20:36), and the whole Christian community (21:5) pray on their knees.

Particularly important for our question is the account of the martyrdom of Saint Stephen. The first man to witness to Christ with his blood is described in his suffering as a perfect image of Christ, whose Passion is repeated in the martyrdom of the witness, even in small details. One of these is that Stephen, on his knees, takes up the petition of the crucified Christ: “Lord, do not hold this sin against them” (7:60). We should remember that Luke, unlike Matthew and Mark, speaks of the Lord kneeling in Gethsemane, which shows that Luke wants the kneeling of the first martyr to be seen as his entry into the prayer of Jesus. Kneeling is not only a Christian gesture, but a christological one.

Interestingly enough, the Holy Father does not mention the Nicea canon.

 

[chrisb]

I know that this treats the issue of Nicea, but, I think that Pope Benedict offers us some solid points for reflection. The first comes from the homily that he preached when he put into place the practice of kneeling and receiving Holy Communion oin the tongue during Papal liturgies:

The second reference comes to us from Spirit fo the Liturgy, his best book on the liturgy:

Interestingly enough, the Holy Father does not mention the Nicea canon.

Thanks Benedictgal,

Great contributions.

 

[benedictgal]

Thanks for sharing…

As I recall wasn’t there a bit of anti-Jewish fervor during Nicea? Wasn’t there an attempt to distance Christianity from Judaism? Am I thinking of a different council?

Thinking that kneeling is particularly penitential seems to be the issue. The prophet Daniel says: “And I knelt down on my knees three times a day to give thanks and praise to God” (Dn 6:11).

Daniel didn’t seem to think kneeling was penitential as he did so to give thanks and praise to God… where did this idea that kneeling was penitential come from the Gentile Courts?

I don’t have the answer to that one, but, again, returning to the Holy Father’s reflection, kneeling is both a sign of adoration and supplication:

Secondly, we must mention the gesture of falling to one’s knees before another, which is described four times in the Gospels (cf. Mk 1:40; 10:17; Mt 17:14; 27:29) by means of the word gonypetein. Let us single out Mark 1:40. A leper comes to Jesus and begs Him for help. He falls to his knees before Him and says: “If you will, you can make me clean”. It is hard to assess the significance of the gesture. What we have here is surely not a proper act of adoration, but rather a supplication expressed fervently in bodily form, while showing a trust in a power beyond the merely human.

The situation is different, though, with the classical word for adoration on one’s knees – proskynein. I shall give two examples in order to clarify the question that faces the translator.

First there is the account of how, after the multiplication of the loaves, Jesus stays with the Father on the mountain, while the disciples struggle in vain on the lake with the wind and the waves. Jesus comes to them across the water. Peter hurries toward Him and is saved from sinking by the Lord. Then Jesus climbs into the boat, and the wind lets up. The text continues: “And the ship’s crew came and said, falling at His feet, ‘Thou art indeed the Son of God’” (Mt 14:33, Knox version). Other translations say: “[The disciples] in the boat worshiped [Jesus], saying …” (RSV). Both translations are correct. Each emphasizes one aspect of what is going on. The Knox version brings out the bodily expression, while the RSV shows what is happening interiorly. It is perfectly clear from the structure of the narrative that the gesture of acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God is an act of worship.

He does note that, when the Jews returned from the Babylonian Exile (the Temple was gone), that Ezra knelt in prayer:

After the Exile, in the afflictions of the returned Israel, which is still without a Temple, Ezra repeats this gesture at the time of the evening sacrifice: “I … fell upon my knees and spread out my hands to the Lord my God” (Ezra 9:5). The great psalm of the Passion, Psalm 22 (“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”), ends with the promise: “Yes, to Him shall all the proud of the earth fall down; before Him all who go down to the dust shall throw themselves down” (v. 29, RSV adapted).

Ezra took this posture in imitation of King Solomon, who knelt at the Temple.

 

[chrisb]

I don’t have the answer to that one, but, again, returning to the Holy Father’s reflection, kneeling is both a sign of adoration and supplication:

He does note that, when the Jews returned from the Babylonian Exile (the Temple was gone), that Ezra knelt in prayer:

Ezra took this posture in imitation of King Solomon, who knelt at the Temple.

Sources? Is this all taken from The Spirit of the Liturgy?

 

[benedictgal]

Sources? Is this all taken from The Spirit of the Liturgy?

Yes. In fact, www.adoremus.org has an abridged copy of that chpater. You can find it here:

adoremus.org/1102TheologyKneel.html

In my initial response, I took the Holy Father’s words from the homily he preached in June 2008.

Thank you for the kind words. I hope this helps.

 

[Badaliyyah]

As I recall wasn’t there a bit of anti-Jewish fervor during Nicea? Wasn’t there an attempt to distance Christianity from Judaism? Am I thinking of a different council?

Thinking that kneeling is particularly penitential seems to be the issue. The prophet Daniel says: “And I knelt down on my knees three times a day to give thanks and praise to God” (Dn 6:11).

Daniel didn’t seem to think kneeling was penitential as he did so to give thanks and praise to God… where did this idea that kneeling was penitential come from the Gentile Courts?

The only real knowledge I have of Nicea per se concerns the issue of whether or not the Son and Father are homoousial, and the resulting credal statement. These don’t have any bearing on our question as far as I can tell.

The issue of kneeling appears, though, to be an internal one and not particularly aimed at a contrast with Judaism, at least on first reading. Again it would help if we knew who those kneelers were and why (if any rationale was present at all) they were doing it.

I don’t think we should find it terribly surprising that the author of Daniel and the Council Fathers at Nicea might have understood the act of kneeling differently. You are talking about two very different cultures at the distance of at least some 500+years.

You see this again in the manner that kneeling begins to appear broadly in the Latin liturgy a millenium (give or take a couple hundred years) after Nicea. It is the incorporation of an action that has great cultural significance for Latin Christians.

salaam.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Grace and Peace Deacon Ed,

I found it discussed in this on EWTN website…

ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/STANKNEL.TXT

By Joseph Fessio, S.J.

BTW, isn’t the Father speaking about the ‘root’ of Berakah and not Berakah itself?

The root is “barak” which means to bless. It’s interesting because the other two words that are used, “eulogia” and “bendictio” have slightly different meanings. “Eulogia” is the Greek source for our word “eulogy” and it means “a good word, praise, blessing” while “benedictio” means “extolling, praise, blessing” – neither carry the concept of kneeling. Now, there is a usage in the Old Testament where “barak” is used to mean “to kneel” – but the most common usage is “bless.” In Psalm 95:6 we read: “Enter, let us bow down in worship; let us kneel before the LORD who made us.” This is the only usage of “barak” in the Old Testament where it is translated as “kneel”.

Nevertheless, we must recognize that the Latin Rite has used kneeling for adoration since the 13th century. The East retains the tradition and discipline of standing. Since it is a canon (discipline) it can be changed and this is what the Latin Church did.

Deacon Ed

 

[chrisb]

The root is “barak” which means to bless. It’s interesting because the other two words that are used, “eulogia” and “bendictio” have slightly different meanings. “Eulogia” is the Greek source for our word “eulogy” and it means “a good word, praise, blessing” while “benedictio” means “extolling, praise, blessing” – neither carry the concept of kneeling. Now, there is a usage in the Old Testament where “barak” is used to mean “to kneel” – but the most common usage is “bless.” In Psalm 95:6 we read: “Enter, let us bow down in worship; let us kneel before the LORD who made us.” This is the only usage of “barak” in the Old Testament where it is translated as “kneel”.

Nevertheless, we must recognize that the Latin Rite has used kneeling for adoration since the 13th century. The East retains the tradition and discipline of standing. Since it is a canon (discipline) it can be changed and this is what the Latin Church did.

Deacon Ed

Where can I find information about this ‘kneeling for adoration since the 13th century’. As the cannon suggests there were groups kneeling. Why are we to assume kneeling was something which manifested in the 13th century?

 

[chrisb]

The only real knowledge I have of Nicea per se concerns the issue of whether or not the Son and Father are homoousial, and the resulting credal statement. These don’t have any bearing on our question as far as I can tell.

The issue of kneeling appears, though, to be an internal one and not particularly aimed at a contrast with Judaism, at least on first reading. Again it would help if we knew who those kneelers were and why (if any rationale was present at all) they were doing it.

I don’t think we should find it terribly surprising that the author of Daniel and the Council Fathers at Nicea might have understood the act of kneeling differently. You are talking about two very different cultures at the distance of at least some 500+years.

You see this again in the manner that kneeling begins to appear broadly in the Latin liturgy a millenium (give or take a couple hundred years) after Nicea. It is the incorporation of an action that has great cultural significance for Latin Christians.

salaam.

I really like your replies. Very insightful. Thanks.

This was a link given to me about kneeling. It appears to argue that it’s not simple a cultural thing but a Biblical one…?

adoremus.org/1102TheologyKneel.html

Your insight and comments are most welcome.

 

[RobbyS]

Thanks Benedictgal,

Great contributions.

Then we have the present situation. The de-emphasis on kneeling had less to do with immitating the Eastern Churches and more with imitating the Lutherans et al. It us a concession to those who do not beliieve in the Real Presence, like the removal of the tabernacle from the Altar.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Where can I find information about this ‘kneeling for adoration since the 13th century’. As the cannon suggests there were groups kneeling. Why are we to assume kneeling was something which manifested in the 13th century?

The best place to look is in Jungmann’s The Mass of the Roman Rite which provides a really good history on this. The Canon 20 of Nicaea refers to a dissident group that was not following the local traditions. It’s not that kneeling first manifest itself in the 13th century but, rather, it became the norm in Latin Rite by that time.

Deacon Ed