Was Lucifer a (former) saint?

[TheNeutral]

When did the classification of “Saint” first appear? Was anyone in Heaven a saint, or did this classification only apply to those who remained obedient to Jesus throughout and after the rebellion? Obviously Lucifer is Satan now, however, if the first (all in Heaven = Saint/saint) is true, wouldn’t that make Lucifer a saint too (albeit formerly)?

Thank you.

 

[StJoseph8]

I’m pretty sure the title saint only applies to humans and it started in Christianity (at least in the west; I think Eastern religions have something similar).

 

[TheNeutral]

I don’t believe this is true, as Michael the Archangel is considered a Saint.

 

[1ke]

all in Heaven = Saint/saint) is true, wouldn’t that make Lucifer a saint too (albeit formerly)?

The angels’ made their choice before they had been admitted to the beatific vision. Satan was not in Heaven.

 

[TheNeutral]

Where were they then?

 

[Stephen_says]

I know the title “Saint” began to be applied first to martyrs, and then to other holy men and women who remained faithful to God. I know Old Testament figures aren’t necessarily refered to as “saints”, but we believe them to be in heaven, because of their faith.

I think whether or not you can refer to Lucifer as a “former” Saint would depend on if you believe there was ever a time when he was faithful to God.

But in the Bible, we read in John 8:44 You are of your father, the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he abode not in the truth: because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof."

Therefore, I do not believe you can say that Lucifer was EVER faithful to God, and therefore never could have been called a “Saint”

 

[1ke]

Where were they then?

Wel angels are pure spirit, so it’s not really a matter of where.

 

[Vico]

When did the classification of “Saint” and “saint” first appear? Was anyone in Heaven a saint, or did this classification only apply to those who remained obedient to Jesus throughout and after the rebellion? Obviously Lucifer is Satan now, however, if the first (all in Heaven = Saint/saint) is true, wouldn’t that make Lucifer a saint too (albeit formerly)?

Thank you.

Catechism

335 In her liturgy, the Church joins with the angels to adore the thrice-holy God. She invokes their assistance (in the funeral liturgy’s In Paradisum deducant te angeli. . .[“May the angels lead you into Paradise. . .”]). Moreover, in the “Cherubic Hymn” of the Byzantine Liturgy, she celebrates the memory of certain angels more particularly (St. Michael, St. Gabriel, St. Raphael, and the guardian angels).

 

[TheNeutral]

I know the title “Saint” began to be applied first to martyrs, and then to other holy men and women who remained faithful to God. I know Old Testament figures aren’t necessarily refered to as “saints”, but we believe them to be in heaven, because of their faith.

I think whether or not you can refer to Lucifer as a “former” Saint would depend on if you believe there was ever a time when he was faithful to God.

But in the Bible, we read in John 8:44 You are of your father, the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he abode not in the truth: because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof."

Therefore, I do not believe you can say that Lucifer was EVER faithful to God, and therefore never could have been called a “Saint”

Would that mean that He was evil from the moment of his creation? The Bible seems to imply that He at least had some position of power, and lead in praise, which would lead me to believe he got corrupted over time.

 

[stpurl]

There is no ‘time’ in heaven. But that does not mean that there is not some other measurement beyond time in which not just humans but angels and any other life forms that might exist in heaven (or hell) do not perceive.

Tell me, can one create evil independently? You really can’t. All evil–every possible evil–is a corruption of a good. The good had to exist first in order to be corrupted, even if it was ‘corrupt from the start’. A person who was evil from the moment of conception would still have to be conceived, and conception–the start of life, and life itself, is good.

 

[1ke]

Would that mean that He was evil from the moment of his creation?

That is not what the Church teaches.

If you are interested in the theology of creation,’the angels, the fall of man, etc., I suggest the book Theology For Beginners by Frank Sheed.

 

[De_Maria]

Was Lucifer a (former) saint?

Yes.

When did the classification of “Saint” and “saint” first appear?

Probably sometime after the invention of Capital letters.

Was anyone in Heaven a saint,

Everyone in heaven is a Saint. Including God. God is the Saint of all Saints. Saint only means, “holy”.

Leviticus 11:44 For I, the Lord, am your God. You shall make and keep yourselves holy,[a] because I am holy.

or did this classification only apply to those who remained obedient to Jesus throughout and after the rebellion?

Yes. It only applies to them, now.

Obviously Lucifer is Satan now, however, if the first (all in Heaven = Saint/saint) is true, wouldn’t that make Lucifer a saint too (albeit formerly)?

Originally. As I was taught, Satan was “born”, Lucifer. The greatest and holiest of all the angels. But, when God created man, Satan’s pride got the better of him and he decided that God must be daft to consider becoming man in the future. So, he tried to take over in heaven. The rest is described in Rev 12.

7 [g]Then war broke out in heaven; Michael[h] and his angels battled against the dragon. The dragon and its angels fought back, 8 but they did not prevail and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 The huge dragon, the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world, was thrown down to earth, and its angels were thrown down with it.

Thank you.

I hope that helps.

 

[PJM]

NOPE, there are Angels in heaven to, he was once one of them.

 

[Vico]

…
Would that mean that He was evil from the moment of his creation? The Bible seems to imply that He at least had some position of power, and lead in praise, which would lead me to believe he got corrupted over time.

Lateran Council IV 1215 states (Denzinger 428):

“For the devil and other demons were created by God good in nature, but they themselves through themselves have become wicked. But man sinned at the suggestion of the devil.”

http://patristica.net/denzinger/

 

[BlackFriar]

Lucifer was in heaven (the 6th heaven, closest to the heaven of God also known as the Empyrean heaven). Ironically he who by nature was closest to God’s heaven never got there.
Remember the old cosmology had seven heavens.

He was not created evil but from the very first use of his angelic powers he knowingly made irrevocable decisions incompatible with the love of God and creation.