Was Mary alive...

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Was Mary alive when she was assumed into heaven body and soul?

How can we be so sure about the assumption, but not be so sure about whether or not she died?

And if she did die, does that pose a dilemma regarding the death of a sinless person?

 

[DavidFilmer]

Was Mary alive when she was assumed into heaven body and soul?

We don’t know. It is not part of the Deposit of Faith, so the Church is careful not to use language which could be interpreted one way or another.

How can we be so sure about the assumption, but not be so sure about whether or not she died?

Well, the Assumption IS part of the Deposit of Faith. If she WAS assumed prior to death, she would not have been the first (Elijah and Enoch were assumed before death). Does it really matter?

And if she did die, does that pose a dilemma regarding the death of a sinless person?

Jesus was a sinless person.

FWIW, my own personal opinion: Mary died. She would want to imitate her Son as closely as she could, and I do not think that God would deny her this.

 

[kepha1]

Was Mary alive when she was assumed into heaven body and soul?

Whether or not Mary died is not an article of faith, we are free to accept one or the other, but it seems to me the current leanings is towards the former, that Mary did die. I think the Pope has this leaning.

How can we be so sure about the assumption, but not be so sure about whether or not she died?

The Assumption is dogmatic, part of the deposit of faith, a Tradition that predates the canon of the Bible. Whether Mary died or not is incidental.

And if she did die, does that pose a dilemma regarding the death of a sinless person?

Does it pose a dilemna for the death of Jesus?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Was Mary alive when she was assumed into heaven body and soul?

How can we be so sure about the assumption, but not be so sure about whether or not she died?

And if she did die, does that pose a dilemma regarding the death of a sinless person?

I will speak from the Eastern Tradition. Mary did die, but it wasn’t the same death we all face. Because she has been filled with grace, she experienced what we call a Dormition, or a light falling asleep. But it is to say she passed from this life. She had a tomb. And tradition further states that she was resurrected by Jesus on the third day and then immediately assumed body and soul into heaven.

What is the dilema of a death of a sinless person? Because of Adam and Eve’s sin, our world changed. In the fallen world, everyone dies. If a sinless person cannot die, then Jesus would not have suffered death.

 

[thistle]

Was Mary alive when she was assumed into heaven body and soul?

How can we be so sure about the assumption, but not be so sure about whether or not she died?

And if she did die, does that pose a dilemma regarding the death of a sinless person?

Catholics must believe in Mary’s Assumption but are free to believe she died first or did not die first.

 

[promethius]

I think that the other questions have been adequately responded to, but I’d like to add an element to the response to that second one…

How can we be so sure about the assumption, but not be so sure about whether or not she died?

Because God (In the magisterium granted by the Holy Spirit) has not deemed it necessary to clarify for us whether or not she was alive or dead at the time of assumption. It is only important that we understand that she is bodily in heaven.

We will learn whether she was alive or dead at the time of the assumption when God deems it good, fitting, and proper to reveal this (if ever… God may never deem that we need to know something so specific if it is only incidental).

 

[Aelred_Minor]

We don’t know. It is not part of the Deposit of Faith, so the Church is careful not to use language which could be interpreted one way or another.

Small but important little nitpick:

The Magisterium has not formally defined whether Mary died before her Assumption into heaven. This does not necessarily mean Mary’s Dormition (using the word in the narrow sense, meaning her death or something like death) is not a part of the Deposit of Faith. It means it is in the category the Assumption itself or the Immaculate Conception were in for the Early Church and the Medieval Church, something that is believed at least by some but which has not been formally defined by the Magisterium. Sometime in the future the Magisterium could define, even infallibly define, the Dormition in the future just like Pius XII did for the Assumption about sixty years ago. Just like the Assumption, it would not be as if the new dogma had never been in the Deposit of Faith and is suddenly put in it, but rather it would have always been in the Deposit of Faith, passed on from the time of the Apostles by the Ordinary Magisterium of the bishops as a whole, but only formally defined by the Extraordinary Magisterium later on.

 

[The_Scott]

I will speak from the Eastern Tradition. Mary did die, but it wasn’t the same death we all face. Because she has been filled with grace, she experienced what we call a Dormition, or a light falling asleep. But it is to say she passed from this life.

Hi Constantine,

Would you say that the Eastern tradition of the Dormition is a sort of compromise between Mary being alive and Mary being dead upon her Assumption? Sort of similar “coma” like state?

She had a tomb.

This is very interesting. I know there’s a traditional place for her assumption…do we have a tradition of where she was entombed?

From what you just described, I kind of like this idea – it seems almost more peaceful, if that makes more sense, than Mary full-fledged dying.

 

[valentino]

We can’t be absolutely sure unless you believe that the people who reported this are absolutely reliable.Im one of those believers who trust in what most people say are true to the best of their knowledge.The apostle(s)who reported the assumption along with others are trustworthy in my judgement.Yes, Mary was alive when She was assumed.

 

[thistle]

We can’t be absolutely sure unless you believe that the people who reported this are absolutely reliable.Im one of those believers who trust in what most people say are true to the best of their knowledge.The apostle(s)who reported the assumption along with others are trustworthy in my judgement.Yes, Mary was alive when She was assumed.

The Church allows Catholics to believe that Mary died first or did not die first. Your comment is implying that the Church is saying the Apostles are not trustworthy so be very careful with your comments.
You may say you believe she was alive when she was assumed (because that is your opinion and allowed by the Church) but you may not say “Yes, Mary was alive when she was assumed” (because that is being stated as a fact and not an opinion).
It is not a fact that she died first and it is not a fact that she did not die first.

 

[valentino]

The Church allows Catholics to believe that Mary died first or did not die first. Your comment is implying that the Church is saying the Apostles are not trustworthy so be very careful with your comments.
You may say you believe she was alive when she was assumed (because that is your opinion and allowed by the Church) but you may not say “Yes, Mary was alive when she was assumed” (because that is being stated as a fact and not an opinion).
It is not a fact that she died first and it is not a fact that she did not die first.

I thank you.Ive always thought(assumed)Mary was alive.I know that Mary was supposed to have died on earth but when She was assumed I thought(assumed)She came back to life.Your right.I should know absolutly positively when I post answers to questions.I will be more careful from now on.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hi Constantine,

Would you say that the Eastern tradition of the Dormition is a sort of compromise between Mary being alive and Mary being dead upon her Assumption? Sort of similar “coma” like state?

No, it is a definite passing from this life. The Eastern belief is that we cannot receive our glorified bodies until we pass from this life. Death is seen as something violent, because it separates the soul from the body. But Mary did not suffer this kind of death because she is filled with God’s grace.

This is very interesting. I know there’s a traditional place for her assumption…do we have a tradition of where she was entombed?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary’s_Tomb

From what you just described, I kind of like this idea – it seems almost more peaceful, if that makes more sense, than Mary full-fledged dying.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I thank you.Ive always thought(assumed)Mary was alive.I know that Mary was supposed to have died on earth but when She was assumed I thought(assumed)She came back to life.Your right.I should know absolutly positively when I post answers to questions.I will be more careful from now on.

The tradition on the Dormition is that Mary was resurrected by her Son on the third day and immediately assumed body and soul into heaven.