Was Mary baptized?

[Evan]

It would appear the Church has not addressed Mary’s Baptism …in a formal way.
Thus, Catholics can believe as they wish. So, based upon Sacred Scripture, faith & reason …I believe either John, the Apostles, or Christ … submerged her in the Jordan …at her desire / request !!!

You’ve discovered even more truths now…

She was baptized
It was in the Jordan
She was submerged.

My understanding is the even Jesus was not submerged because at the traditional place where he was baptized, the Jordan is quite shallow. Probably more like pouring water over him.

 

[brb3]

You’ve discovered even more truths now…

She was baptized
It was in the Jordan
She was submerged.

My understanding is the even Jesus was not submerged because at the traditional place where he was baptized, the Jordan is quite shallow. Probably more like pouring water over him.

Nope …scripture & the Diddache refute ur 'modernist teachings !!

 

[Evan]

What modernist teaching?

That the Jordan is shallow?
That Jesus was baptized at the traditional location?
That baptism was never a word used exclusively for immersion?

This is the Didache’s information regarding the Sacrament of Baptism (not necessarily relating to the way John practiced it)

Didache Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

I don’t know of anyplace in scripture where it specifies how to baptize. But here is something from the wikipedia entry

The New Testament contains four related words; two verbs and two nouns[citation needed]:
baptein—to wash something
baptizein—to wash, often a person in a ritual context
baptismos—Jewish ritual washing
baptisma—the new Christian rite

As Christians of different traditions dispute whether total immersion (submersion) is necessary for baptism, the precise meaning of the Greek noun baptisma in the New Testament has become important for discussion.

Meaning of the Greek verb baptizein
The Greek-English Lexicon of Liddell and Scott gives the primary meaning of the verb baptizein, from which the English verb “baptize” is derived, as “dip, plunge”, and by giving examples of the use of βαπτίζω for plunging a sword into a throat of an embryo and for drawing wine by dipping a cup in the bowl indicates that the dipping or plunging need not be complete; for New Testament usage it gives two meanings: “baptize”, with which it associates the Septuagint mention of Naaman dipping himself in the Jordan River, and “perform ablutions”, as in Luke 11:38

 

[aragonjohn1]

Mary received sanctifying grace at her Conception, so she did not need a Baptism by water to be saved. However, there is a tradition that she received the Sacrament of Baptism (by water) as an adult.

Yes God baptized her early.

Shalom
God bless

 

[brumano]

I’m not sure this is a good argument. After all, Mary’s assumption is not recorded in the Scriptures. Nor is her perpetual virginity explicitly mentioned.

Sometimes I said, but, probably should have said sometimes this can be a part of how we understand something scripturally; if someone could point to the book, chapter and verses that tell of Mary’s baptism, it would have already been part of church teaching long ago.

Mary’s death is not recorded in the Scriptures either, the assumption, although of course it is not called that in the Scriptures, of at least (5) persons are spoken of in the Scriptures. The prophet Elijah for one might come to mind. We believe in the Doctrines as well as Scriptures, and the ones about Mary are all cohesive and integral in her person.

Mary’s perpetual virginity is not spoken of explicity or extensively in the Scriptures because it is understood implicity through exegesis and in her being addressed as full of grace. Mary is the Ever Virgin. She’s not just a woman who has perpetual virginity; that’s totally wrong, She is Blessed Mary Ever Virgin.She is Holy.

 

[brb3]

Yes God baptized her early.

Shalom
God bless

And late …as Ron Conte said !!

 

[fred_conty]

In the church today, a good baptism may not be given twice because it would frustrate the end of the sacrament, full cleansing of sin. In view of this, I don’t know how Mary could receive the sacrament of baptism since she did not have any sin to be cleansed from. This would frustrate the sacrament.

She could receive John’s baptism, or a purification of water rite, which are not sacramental.
This could be possible.

Lk 3,16
“…I indeed baptise you with water. But…He will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”
Spoken by John the Baptist.

The sacrament is not the same as John’s baptism as John himself points out.

Just some thoughts.

 

[teeboy]

Wasn’t she conceived without original sin?

 

[aragonjohn1]

And late …as Ron Conte said !!

Shalom

 

[PJM]

=fred conty;10160711]In the church today, a good baptism may not be given twice because it would frustrate the end of the sacrament, full cleansing of sin. In view of this, I don’t know how Mary could receive the sacrament of baptism since she did not have any sin to be cleansed from. This would frustrate the sacrament.

She could receive John’s baptism, or a purification of water rite, which are not sacramental.
This could be possible.

Lk 3,16
“…I indeed baptise you with water. But…He will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”
Spoken by John the Baptist.

The sacrament is not the same as John’s baptism as John himself points out.

Just some thoughts.

Fred, your 1st. point is excellent.

Thank you,

 

[mercytruth]

Mary taught “do whatever he tells you”

CHRIST taught " ye must be born again, with WATER & the HOLY SPIRIT"

I rest my case …Mary WAS BAPTIZED IN WATER.
SOMEHOW, SOMETIME, SOMEPLACE !!

Was it by John the Baptizer, the Apostles( most probable) … or by Christ himself…even if by his own blood from Calvary…when she held him in her arms, wrapped his body, and laid him to rest ?

**22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing. 23 John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being baptized 24 (for John had not yet been put in prison).

25 Now a discussion arose between some of John’s disciples and a Jew over purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness—look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him.” ** (John3:22-26)

35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:35-36)

From these scriptures it appears that baptism was a purification ceremony that was perfomed on those who became disciples to the authority of either John the Baptist, or of Jesus Christ.

The disciples of Jesus Christ submitted to his authority through a baptismal purification ceremony. This authority was the authority that John the Baptist says was greater than his own authority, and it was the authority in which the Father gave all things into his hands as the Son of God.

No doubt, Mary submitted to the authority of the Son of God and was baptized.

God’s peace

micah

 

[guanophore]

Related question: were the Apostles? We don’t know. We can safely say they were, we can extend a similar argument that sanctifying grace came upon them in an extraordinary way (since Baptism is the ordinary means by which sanctifying grace is conferred, but ordinary means do not constrain the Spirit).

We can’t say much about Mary that we can say about most people, at least as regards personal salvation, but God worked through her in ways different from how He works through us.

And He cleansed His Apostles differently too:

John 15:3-4
3 You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you.

 

[brb3]

**22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing. 23 John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being baptized 24 (for John had not yet been put in prison).

25 Now a discussion arose between some of John’s disciples and a Jew over purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness—look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him.” ** (John3:22-26)

35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:35-36)

From these scriptures it appears that baptism was a purification ceremony that was perfomed on those who became disciples to the authority of either John the Baptist, or of Jesus Christ.

The disciples of Jesus Christ submitted to his authority through a baptismal purification ceremony. This authority was the authority that John the Baptist says was greater than his own authority, and it was the authority in which the Father gave all things into his hands as the Son of God.

No doubt, Mary submitted to the authority of the Son of God and was baptized.

God’s peace

micah

Testify to the scriptures…spiritual child of Mary !!!

Mary, like her Son, was washed clean … doing whatever He said. Mary was a LADY OF THE SACRAMENTS !!

 

[fred_conty]

Fred, your 1st. point is excellent.

Thank you,

PJM, your welcome, and here is more explaination of the 2nd point, the real difference between the two baptisms.

Acts 18;24-27
Now a certain Jew named Appollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, and mighty in the Scriptures. He had been instructed in the Way of the Lord, and being fervent in spirit, used to speak and teach careflly whatever had to do with Jesus, though he knew of John’s baptism only. This man began to speak confidently in the synagogue, and on hearing him Priscilla and aquila took him home and expounded the Way of God to him more precisely.

Acts 19;1-7
Now…Paul…came to Ephesus…and said, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?” But they said to him, “We have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “How then were you bapized?” They said, “With John’s baptism.” Then Paul said, “John baptized the people with the baptism of repentance, telling them to believe in him who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus…

This shows that Appollos only baptized with John’s baptism in the city of Ephesus.

Then Paul visits Ephesus, and when he finds the people were baptized with John’s baptism, he then baptises them in the name of the Lord Jesus. Which shows that John’s baptism is not sacramental and is not sufficient.

Just a another thought.