Was Mary ever baptized or at the Last Supper?

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AmbroseSJ said:
I think you’re being unfair and maybe even prejudiced based on your own understanding.

You are perfectly correct that Mary was “full of grace,” but she herself is not the “Body” of Christ. The entire Church of baptized believers is the body of Christ. This is doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with supposing that the Virgin Mary would have wanted the benefits of every Christian Sacrament available to her. In fact I think it is very dubious to suppose that the Virgin Mary exempted herself from any necessary Christian sacrament because she imagined herself superior and in no need.

You should also be aware that the Bible is NOT the only source of knowledge with regard to the Virgin Mary. The Church and her Tradition is also an oracle from God. That is why, as Catholics we can celebrate the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, although it is NOWHERE mentioned in Sacred Scripture.

Therefore I believe it is inconceivable that the Virgin Mary was not Baptized according to the Trinitarian formula, just as we are.

Likewise I believe it is inconceivable, that the Virgin Mary did not receive the Holy Eucharist, and very likely that she received at the Last Supper. However, that is not Church teaching, but personal opinion. 🙂 How this was accomplished may indeed be a mystery.

I think, in order to keep a balanced view, it is necessary to always remember the Virgin Mary’s profound humility in all things. She would have considered herself to be in as much need of the Sacraments as anyone.

The example of the Purification is a perfect argument. She was in no need of Purification after the birth of Jesus, yet she submitted to the Mosaic Ordinance.
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When I said She was the “Body” of Christ, I was referring to Her giving HIM His Body. She was the source of HIS Body. That is Church teaching also!. I am very much aware that the Bible is not our only source of knowledge, Sacred Tradition is equal to it. But no where does Sacred Tradition say that Mary received the Holy Eucharist. Or that she was ever baptized. She was in NO need of any of the Sacraments as she was as perfect as any human could ever be. Her profound humility understood this far better than we will ever be able to. God Bless, Memaw
 
Re: Feast of the Purification of Mary, which is usually today called the Feast of the Presentation of Jesus –

Luke 2:22-24 –

"And after the days of her purification, according to the law of Moses, were accomplished, they carried him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord. As it is written in the law of the Lord, “Every male opening the womb shall be called holy to the Lord.” And to offer a sacrifice, according as it is written in the law of the Lord: a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

Leviticus 5:7:

“But if he be not able to offer a beast, let him offer two turtles, or two young pigeons to the Lord…”

Here’s a summary of Jewish law as it was followed before the Temple was destroyed. Some of these rules only applied to priests and priestly families (although the Pharisees wanted all Jews to follow them, in preparation for the Messiah or to make him show up faster), though some applied to all Jews.
"A woman who gives birth to a son is impure for seven days and requires purification for thirty-three days.If the baby is a female, the mother is impure for two weeks and the period of purification is sixty-six days.
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“A sacrificial sin offering of a lamb and a bird to a priest was required at the end of the period of purification so the priest could atone for the mother and she would become pure.”
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(But see the quote from Leviticus above.)
“The mother was not permitted to touch any hallowed thing or enter the sanctuary until her purification was completed.”
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Well… obviously Mary was touching Jesus a lot, and she herself was a hallowed Ark to bear him, so the relevance of that one kinda went away! But she did go to the Temple to get purified, although tradition puts it happening later than the 33 day mark. (In fact, Candlemas is the 39th day from Christmas Eve, but it is traditionally counted as 40 days.)
 
She was in NO need of any of the Sacraments as she was as perfect as any human could ever be. Her profound humility understood this far better than we will ever be able to. God Bless, Memaw
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Are you saying that because of Mary’s profound humility she understood that she was as perfect as any human could ever be? :confused:
 
Lily_Bernans said:
""Immersion for women following menstruation and childbirth is a rabbinic, not a biblical, requirement. The halakhic regulations appear particularly in tb Niddah, which discusses the practical consequences for male ritual purity of women’s menstrual and non-menstrual discharges. On the eighth “white day, following the cessation of menstrual flow, the wife must immerse in the mikveh (ritual bath) before marital relations can resume. Jewish girls were traditionally taught to comply strictly and promptly with the regulations connected with the niddah (the menstruating woman). Ablution, which took place only after the body and hair had been thoroughly cleansed, had to be complete. Halakhah demanded a single immersion but three became customary. Post-menstrual and post-partum women usually visited the mikveh at night, often accompanied by other women.”

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0001_0_00161.html

Not at all the same thing as baptismal immersion, though.
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Thanks for your post.

You’re exactly right in quoting this site which says that it’s the Rabbis who made it a law for the women to be immersed after their cycle. But just in case you’re interested, here is their reasoning for making this a law:

They were following the rule of immersion listed in Leviticus chapter 15 for any person or object which came into contact with a menstruating woman: that the person or object must be immersed in water. When the scripture continues talking about the woman, it says “…after this, she may be cleansed.” They interpreted this to mean the same kind of cleansing which was required in the previous verses.

Leviticus 15:19-22;28

19 If a woman has a discharge, her flesh discharging blood, she shall remain in her state of menstrual separation for seven days, and whoever touches her shall become unclean until evening.
20And whatever she lies on during her menstrual separation, shall become unclean, and whatever she sits on, shall become unclean.
21And anyone who touches her bedding, shall immerse his garments and immerse [himself] in water, and he shall remain unclean until evening.
22And anyone who touches any object upon which she will sit, shall immerse his garments and immerse himself in water, and he shall remain unclean until evening.

28And if she becomes clean of her discharge, she shall count for herself seven days, and after this, **she may be cleansed.
**

(bolding is mine)
 
NO, and the one He received from John was not Sacramental Baptism. God Bless, Memaw
 
AmbroseSJ said:
Are you saying that because of Mary’s profound humility she understood that she was as perfect as any human could ever be? :confused:
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Please, stop putting words in my mouth and making them come out the way YOU want them to. I never said that or meant it. I said, in Her profound humility she understood more than we ever will, actually about everything including She had no need for Sacraments. In many ways, Our Blessed Mother is a Beautiful Mystery to us. She fulfilled God’s plan for her life and the life of Her SON perfectly. Speculating about all kinds of things is a waste of time. I think we have enough to do to contemplate what we do know from Scripture, Tradition and Church teaching. God Bless, Memaw
 
Pious beliefs or legends are not Church Doctrine. Jewish ritual baths after each woman’s cycle are not a part of any teachings that I know of and I taught CCD and day school religion for a total of nearly 20 years. God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
Please, stop putting words in my mouth and making them come out the way YOU want them to. I never said that or meant it. I said, in Her profound humility she understood more than we ever will, actually about everything ***including She had no need for Sacraments. *** In many ways, Our Blessed Mother is a Beautiful Mystery to us. She fulfilled God’s plan for her life and the life of Her SON perfectly. Speculating about all kinds of things is a waste of time. I think we have enough to do to contemplate what we do know from Scripture, Tradition and Church teaching. God Bless, Memaw
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Your irritation is unfounded. I did not put any words in your mouth. I merely asked if what you said was what it apparently meant, knowing you could not have meant it.

However, your futher answer: “I said, in Her profound humility she understood more than we ever will, actually about everything including She had no need for Sacraments.” proved me wrong, as it was just another way of saying exactly what I asked of you. :eek:

I don’t believe you will find any devout Catholic willing to agree with your statement above.
 
Simca said:
Thanks for your post.

You’re exactly right in quoting this site which says that it’s the Rabbis who made it a law for the women to be immersed after their cycle. But just in case you’re interested, here is their reasoning for making this a law:

They were following the rule of immersion listed in Leviticus chapter 15 for any person or object which came into contact with a menstruating woman: that the person or object must be immersed in water. When the scripture continues talking about the woman, it says “…after this, she may be cleansed.” They interpreted this to mean the same kind of cleansing which was required in the previous verses.

Leviticus 15:19-22;28

19 If a woman has a discharge, her flesh discharging blood, she shall remain in her state of menstrual separation for seven days, and whoever touches her shall become unclean until evening.
20And whatever she lies on during her menstrual separation, shall become unclean, and whatever she sits on, shall become unclean.
21And anyone who touches her bedding, shall immerse his garments and immerse [himself] in water, and he shall remain unclean until evening.
22And anyone who touches any object upon which she will sit, shall immerse his garments and immerse himself in water, and he shall remain unclean until evening.

28And if she becomes clean of her discharge, she shall count for herself seven days, and after this, **she may be cleansed.
**

(bolding is mine)
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Thank you, Simca.
 
AmbroseSJ said:
Your irritation is unfounded. I did not put any words in your mouth. I merely asked if what you said was what it apparently meant, knowing you could not have meant it.

However, your futher answer: “I said, in Her profound humility she understood more than we ever will, actually about everything including She had no need for Sacraments.” proved me wrong, as it was just another way of saying exactly what I asked of you. :eek:

I don’t believe you will find any devout Catholic willing to agree with your statement above.
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I think her humility would have caused her to seek baptism.
 
DaddyGirl said:
Didn’t women and men eat together and/or take part in Seder dinner together?

I haven’t heard of Jesus segregating genders during meals.

.
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But in the Gospels Jesus eats the meal with the Twelve! There were no women in the Twelve!
 
DaddyGirl said:
I think that in Greek, there was indeed a word for “brother” and “sister”…and also a separate word for “cousin”.

.
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Then your reasoning would be that Jesus had actual full brothers and sisters, and Mary was not a virgin.

What is the Koine Greek word for “cousin?”
 
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