Was Mohammad an example for all Muslims to follow?

[MissyB786]

Well, there is so much that can be said that contrasts Muhammad as an exemplar with Jesus. Suffice to point out that ‘Allah’ supposedly permitted his number one ‘prophet’ {I don’t believe he actually prophesied anything of note] to be bamboozled/fooled by Satan {the ‘Satanic Verses’].

Sura 113, a short one, revealed in Mecca, says in its entirety:

1 Say [Prophet], “I seek refuge with the Lord of daybreak 2 against the evil in what He has created, 3 the evil in the night when darkness gathers, 4 the evil in witches when they blow on knots, 5 the evil in the envier when he envies.” (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004, his insertion; cf. Suras 7:200-201; 16:98; 41:36; and Sura 114, a short one, in its entirety)

The hadith is the record of Muhammad words and actions outside of the Quran. Bukhari is considered a highly reliable collector and editor. The following hadith indicates that Muhammad believes that some sort of knots on the head is the result of Satan and witchcraft.

Allah’s Apostle said, “Satan puts three knots at the back of the head of any of you if he is asleep”

This next hadith demonstrates that Muhammad was so deeply influenced by magic that he believed that he was having sex with his wives, but in reality he was not.

Narrated Aisha: Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not. (Bukhari)

The highly respected conservative commentator, Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi (d. 1979), says that the hadiths on Muhammad’s bewitchment are sound. “As far as the historical aspect is concerned, the incident of the Holy Prophet’s being affected by magic is absolutely confirmed” … (Maududi and scroll down to “Question of Holy Prophet being affected by magic”). Maududi is right. Muhammad was bewitched. And this is not part of true Prophethood.

Muhammad confirmed [for a while] that it was still OK to worship some of the old [male and female] deities - then later when down in Medina and with a bigger following, changed his mind.

Contrast this carry-on with Jesus authority and confidence when confronted by Satan and his fellow demons.

Please can u give reference where he said it was ok to worship these old dieties, he permitted it but NEVER ACCEPTED IT and declared there to be only ONE GOD. Just like he permitted people to remain Jewish/Christian. Eventually he destroyed all the idols.

As for bewitched. Christianity does believe in witchcraft does it not? And I believe anything that happened to Prophet(PBUH) GOOD AND BAD was so if anything similar happened to us we would know what to do as it happened to him to. So when he was bewitched, to break it he was told to recite Surah Falaq and Nas and some other duas. If anyone happens to fall under bewitchery in this modern day and age they know to recite Surah Falaq and Nas as that is what the Prophet(PBUH) did.

muslim-responses.com/Black_Magic_on_the_Prophet/Black_Magic_on_the_Prophet_

Sadly there are evil people out in the world that will try to use the power of the devil to harm people but because it happened to the Prophet(PBUH) and he received revelations to cure it, so now can all people do the same if they are afflicted by it.

BTW how did the Prophet(PBUH) happen to know who did bewitchment on him, as God revealed it to him and when he confronted these people they were shocked at how they had been discovered and how the Prophet(PBUH) came to know of their actions.

 

[Mount_Carmel]

‘Witchcraft’ is an often misunderstood and often over reacted upon term. In former days, and even now to a lesser extent, mental illness and true demon possession and the like get mixed up/confused. Unlike Muhammad, Jesus knew a devil/evil spirit when he saw one, and had the authority to banish it - even Satan himself.

Interestingly, Christians and Jews view God/Yaweh as being TRUTH, that He cannot lie/decieve and does not deliberately put a soul in harm’s way.

And yet it is claimed in the Qur’an that Allah is the greatest/best of decievers. Hmmn, that is a title that Christians reserve for Satan.

As for the Satanic Verses and Abrogation, may I invite you to read the following well argued and referenced link?

www.answering-islam.org/BehindVeil/btv10.html

 

[Jesse1968]

They are called Mumin (Believers) whilst after Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) we are called Muslims. But as they believe in Allah and submitted to Allah then they are Muslims to.

Islamic apologists have to reconcile the linguistic contradictions and editorial mistakes made when compiling the Quran after the death of Muhammad, and it was no easy task. Much of it was actually retrieved from conflicting verbal recitations and fond memories of their dead chieftain. Rather than risk confusion, ask the Muslim a direct question: Was Abraham a Muslim and what exactly makes him one? Muslims need careful explanation of their own religion, and; it isn’t difficult to do. Look at it this way, if Abraham was in Mecca [as is supposed] and Abraham was a Muslim, then Muhammad was not the first Muslim sent to the Arabs. That makes the Quran and the Haditha wrong on Abraham and wrong or confused on the very meaning of the term ‘Muslim’. Let me close with the evidence. Sura 3:67 calls Abraham both a ‘hanifa’ * and a ‘musliman’ which means ‘Muslim’. Very clearly, the redactors of the Quran considered the rites and practices of 7th century Islam to have been practiced as far back as the 1800bc. Don’t let Muslims play tricky word games.*

 

[Jesse1968]

Narrated Aisha: Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not. (Bukhari)

From a form critical perspective, I find this tradition fascinating. Islamic historians, often obsessed with sex, proclaim that Muhammad was such a superman in the sack that he had sex with all his wives in a single night. Here we have a tradition from which me may gleam a bit of the historical truth. Muhammad sometimes didn’t have the strength, and blamed his impotency or lack of interest on magic. Better to blame the devil than to admit that he was just too tired to perform. Or, it maybe, as some have suggested, that Muhammad was delusional most or all of his life.

 

[MissyB786]

‘Witchcraft’ is an often misunderstood and often over reacted upon term. In former days, and even now to a lesser extent, mental illness and true demon possession and the like get mixed up/confused. Unlike Muhammad, Jesus knew a devil/evil spirit when he saw one, and had the authority to banish it - even Satan himself.

Interestingly, Christians and Jews view God/Yaweh as being TRUTH, that He cannot lie/decieve and does not deliberately put a soul in harm’s way.

And yet it is claimed in the Qur’an that Allah is the greatest/best of decievers. Hmmn, that is a title that Christians reserve for Satan.

As for the Satanic Verses and Abrogation, may I invite you to read the following well argued and referenced link?

www.answering-islam.org/BehindVeil/btv10.html

reference please to the verse which u believe is about decieving? Admittedly there are mental illnesses but do you deny that witchcraft doesnt exist? If so, why do the catholic church carry out exorcisms? I have read testimonies of people admitting they have done witchcraft! whether or not it works is another question.

13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. James 1[13-15] God cannot be tempted by evil

For this reason he had to be made like them,[a] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.[Hebrew 2:17-18] Jesus tempted by Satan? I thought God cannot be tempted?

At once the Spirit sent him out into the wilderness, 13 and he was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted[a] by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.[Mark 1:12-13]Again I thought God cannot be tempted by Evil

Why would the angels need to attend to God, God cannot be tempted by Evil? So the authority to banish evil/Satan lies in God, not Jesus(PBUH)

Same with the affliction on the Prophet(PBUH), the power is in God to remove it and if you read the link I added to my previous comment you will read God remove it.

 

[Jesse1968]

Seerah worth reading for anyone interested. I read one by Martin Ling the author but there are lots available some longer than others.

The Sirat Rasool Allah are books that describe and try to reconstruct the life of Muhammad. Unfortunately, most objective scholars recognize glaring inconsistencies between the many different biographies, e.g., Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Abbas, al-Tabari, et al. Many of the suggested readings are from the 20th century and have absolutely no value to any rational historian. So, Martin Ling ** may be a source lacking real vigor. He was a protestant convert to Islam in the 1940s, so Muslims couldn’t wait to hold him up as a major contributor to Islamic history.**

 

[dronald]

They are called Mumin (Believers) whilst after Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) we are called Muslims. But as they believe in Allah and submitted to Allah then they are Muslims to.

This is tricky, because the Quran states that Muslims became dominant during Christ’s time. Yet Christianity became dominant.

 

[MissyB786]

From a form critical perspective, I find this tradition fascinating. Islamic historians, often obsessed with sex, proclaim that Muhammad was such a superman in the sack that he had sex with all his wives in a single night. Here we have a tradition from which me may gleam a bit of the historical truth. Muhammad sometimes didn’t have the strength, and blamed his impotency or lack of interest on magic. Better to blame the devil than to admit that he was just too tired to perform. Or, it maybe, as some have suggested, that Muhammad was delusional most or all of his life.

Lolz first people attack him for having too much of a sex drive and now for him having too little sex drive hahaha i feel like laughing people need to make their mind up.

Adultery is ok, but not polygamy which entitles each wife and their children safety protection rights but a mistress has none of those.

Henry 8th with his 6 wives plus God knows how many mistresses and I could name a lot more royalty in history as well. At least the Prophet(PBUH) honored all his wives by marrying them and didn’t keep mistresses.

 

[MissyB786]

The Sirat Rasool Allah are books that describe and try to reconstruct the life of Muhammad. Unfortunately, most objective scholars recognize glaring inconsistencies between the many different biographies, e.g., Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Abbas, al-Tabari, et al. Many of the suggested readings are from the 20th century and have absolutely no value to any rational historian. So, Martin Ling ** may be a source lacking real vigor. He was a protestant convert to Islam in the 1940s, so Muslims couldn’t wait to hold him up as a major contributor to Islamic history.**

If I had time I would read all of them,but I am getting thru them one by one starting with the basic ones.

 

[dronald]

Lolz first people attack him for having too much of a sex drive and now for him having too little sex drive hahaha i feel like laughing people need to make their mind up.

Adultery is ok, but not polygamy which entitles each wife and their children safety protection rights but a mistress has none of those.

Henry 8th with his 6 wives plus God knows how many mistresses and I could name a lot more royalty in history as well. At least the Prophet(PBUH) honored all his wives by marrying them and didn’t keep mistresses.

So King Henry’s evil deeds justify Muhammad’s evil deeds you’re saying? Isn’t one supposed to be a prophet?

 

[Jesse1968]

reference please to the verse which u believe is about decieving?

Surah 3:54

When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. James 1[13-15] God cannot be tempted by evil

God cannot be tempted into doing evil, not that Satan doesn’t strive against God [cf. Job chp. 1].

Why would the angels need to attend to God, God cannot be tempted by Evil? So the authority to banish evil/Satan lies in God, not Jesus(PBUH)

God is attended by choirs of angels, and uses them to interact in our world. I may be missing your point.

 

[MissyB786]

Surah 3:54

God cannot be tempted into doing evil, not that Satan doesn’t strive against God [cf. Job chp. 1].

God is attended by choirs of angels, and uses them to interact in our world. I may be missing your point.

And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners. [Quran 3:54] the word is Planner NOT deciever

Satan strives against mankind to deceive us not God, he disobeys God but he cannot do anything to God.

 

[Jesse1968]

first people attack him for having too much of a sex drive and now for him having too little sex drive hahaha i feel like laughing people need to make their mind up

.

Actually, I am pointing out two conflicting traditions in your source material and looking into them both for the historical truth. That is commonly called ‘form or source criticism’. You Muslims call it ‘hadith science’.

Adultery is ok, but not polygamy which entitles each wife and their children safety protection rights but a mistress has none of those

.

Adultery is not ok, as is made clear in the ten commandments [see, Exo 20:14]. Also, I am unconvinced that polygamy does, in fact, entitle wives and children safety and protection.

Henry 8th with his 6 wives plus God knows how many mistresses and I could name a lot more royalty in history as well. At least the Prophet(PBUH) honored all his wives by marrying them and didn’t keep mistresses.

Muhammad did not have mistresses? Then tell me about the slave girl named ‘Mary the Copt’.

Henry VIII had several wives, this is true; but, he did not have them all at once and his constant divorces had a great deal to do with finding a wife who could give birth to a male heir.

 

[Mount_Carmel]

And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners. [Quran 3:54] the word is Planner NOT deciever

Satan strives against mankind to deceive us not God, he disobeys God but he cannot do anything to God.

Missy, only ‘creations’ need to plan since they are not the masters of infinity/eternity - only God is. God does not need to plan - God already knows.

Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena
And they cheated/deceived and Allah cheated/deceived, and Allah (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers.
Note that the above translation is given by a Muslim!

There is no doubt that makr means deception, scheming, but looking at most Muslim translations, we see that this meaning is totally lost:

Jesus with the authority of the Divine within Him knew how to deal with Satan - Muhammad did not, and made mistakes.

Perhaps as has been suggested, and in accordance with clues left in the Islamic ‘Trilogy’ and other writings that Muhammad had mental/emotional illness - some modern psychiatrists have suggested his early life gave him a feeling of rejection which led a wish to be noticed through power; and obsessive compulsive traits which would explain his fixations on numbers, rituals and stringent rules. This also would explain why he lived such an austere life and why his religion is filled with so many quirky/nit-picky rules. In later life he seems to have developed acromegaly, a disease caused by excessive production of a growth hormone, resulting in large bones, cold and fleshy hands and feet and coarse facial features such as enlarged lips, nose and tongue. Acromegaly occurs after the age of 40 and usually kills the patient in his early 60s. It causes impotence, while it increases libido.

 

[vgskipp]

An Islamic apologist would respond to a flippant reference to Surah 9:29 with a reference to Luke 19:27, where Jesus is quoted as saying, “Now as for those enemies of mine who did not want me as their king, bring them here and slay them before me” [NAB:1991]. Both the Greek and Latin convey the same command and the image is not pretty [Lt.Vul. ‘interficite ante me’]. Those who reject Jesus as king are to be brought to him and killed. How would a Catholic contrast the two verses and come away without egg on his face? Exegete the verse in Lk 19;27 in English, Greek or Latin and compare the results to Surah 9:29.

actually a moderate Muslim would argue that said ayat is about a different time and were for the people of that time as the Jews of Medina had turned on them and many Christians were making deals with the pagans as part of the war to eliminate Islam at the time. ← this would be the “in-context” that was mentioned by another in the thread.

 

[Jesse1968]

actually a moderate Muslim would argue that said ayat is about a different time and were for the people of that time as the Jews of Medina had turned on them and many Christians were making deals with the pagans as part of the war to eliminate Islam at the time. ← this would be the “in-context” that was mentioned by another in the thread.

So, you would argue that neither Surah 9:29 or Luke 19:27 have any bearing on what is expected from each religion today? Now that is ‘in context’.

 

[vgskipp]

I think in the historical context Jesus was trying to explain what was going to happen to him and that the kingdom of heaven was not a physical thing, in the end he will be judge and he will decide the ultimate fate of all as is written but not a physical death as we understand it but final judgment of those who did not want Jesus as king.

Although, admittedly Luke 19:27 in the context of the parable is baffling to the most knowledgeable of readers as it can be taken in many ways. A person could argue that it is simply saying that this world will be cruel. Or it could be saying that before the kingdom of God is established here in this world God will send out his servants to work for him and those who do not will be punished, for what they did or did not do was done out of fear rather than obedience. So really, it would seem to be a verse about supposed believers of Christianity.

 

[MartinJordan]

Although, admittedly Luke 19:27 in the context of the parable is baffling to the most knowledgeable of readers as it can be taken in many ways

However that does not excuse some Muslims from insulting Jesus by saying he himself said it when it was a parable. Jesus was also on the way to Jerusalem to be crucified!

Let’s not let these kind of Muslims sabotage our scripture.

MJ

 

[vgskipp]

However that does not excuse some Muslims from insulting Jesus by saying he himself said it when it was a parable. Jesus was also on the way to Jerusalem to be crucified!

Let’s not let these kind of Muslims sabotage our scripture.

MJ

Yea because that is what Jesus was teaching… we should defend a book, and words instead of just trying to show love and teach the true message.

Right now you sound just like the radicals who call to anger over insulting Muhammad.

 

[MartinJordan]

Yea because that is what Jesus was teaching… we should defend a book, and words instead of just trying to show love and teach the true message.

Right now you sound just like the radicals who call to anger over insulting Muhammad.

Sigh.

MJ