Was Mohammad without sin like Jesus? If not, how can Muslims claim he is greater than Jesus?

[Sam_777]

iaskquestions;3953904:

Hamba, do you really think that God needs an army of angels to do this job? Is one angel not enough? Look what the Bible says

"And **the angel **

of the LORD went forth, and slew a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the camp of the Assyrians; and when men arose early in the morning, behold, these were all dead bodies."

One angel is more than enough!

And it wasn’t an army of 5000 angels that was sent to the Battle of Badr but rather, it was some 1000 angels that descended from the heavens to help the Muslims at Badr.

Excuse me hamba2han, are you trying to hide the truth or are you trying to make your own version of Quran!!!.

Read the authentic references below which exactly mentioning the 5000 angels, of course its not logic at all that God The Most High needs to send that large quantity of Angels yet they killed only 70 men of Quraish.

God The Most High in the OT needed one Angel to kill 185000 Assyrian soldiers, (Isaiah 37:36).

My interpretation that those 5000 were nothing but demons, and the one who sent them is nothing but the moon god (Satan).

My advice to you hamba2han is to pray for God The Most High (not allah) to show you the true religion.

English Referances:

1. Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas:
   “(Nay) it is sufficient to you, (but if you persevere) in war with your Prophet, (and keep from evil) and keep from contravening and disobeying Him, (and) the people of Mecca (attack you suddenly) from the direction of Mecca, (your Lord will help you) against your enemy (with five thousand angels sweeping on) 5,000 marked angels; it is also said this means: 5,000 angels wearing turbans of wool.”
   altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=3&tAyahNo=125&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0
2. Tafsir al-jalalayn:
   “Yea, it is sufficient for you. In [sūrat] al-Anfāl [it is stated] with a thousand [Q. 8:9], because at first He reinforced them with this [thousand], then it became three [thousand] then five [thousand], as God says: if you are patient, in encountering the enemy, and fear, God in not contravening [His command], and they, the idolaters, come against you instantly, your Lord will reinforce you with five thousand angels accoutred’ (read musawimmīn or musawammīn), that is to say, distinctively marked [for the battle]. Indeed, they were patient and God fulfilled His promise to them, so that the angels fought together with them riding upon piebald horses wearing yellow or white turbans, let loose down to their shoulders.”
   altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=3&tAyahNo=125&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0
3. Wikipedia.
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr

Arabic Referances:

1. Tafsir Ibn Kathir:
   
   وقوله تعالى " يمددكم ربكم بخمسة آلاف من الملائكة مسومين " أي معلمين بالسيما . وقال أبو إسحق السبيعي عن حارثة بن مضرب عن علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه قال : كان سيما الملائكة يوم بدر الصوف الأبيض وكان سيماهم أيضا في نواصي خيولهم رواه ابن أبي حاتم . ثم قال حدثنا أبو زرعة حدثنا هدبة بن خالد حدثنا حماد بن سلمة عن محمد بن عمرو بن علقمة عن أبي سلمة عن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه في هذه الآية " مسومين " قال : بالعهن الأحمر وقال مجاهد : " مسومين " أي محذفة أعرافها معلمة نواصيها بالصوف الأبيض في أذناب الخيل وقال العوفي عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنه قال : أتت الملائكة محمدا صلى الله عليه وسلم مسومين بالصوف فسوم محمد وأصحابه أنفسهم وخيلهم على سيماهم بالصوف وقال قتادة وعكرمة " مسومين " أي بسيما القتال . وقال مكحول : مسومين بالعمائم . وروى ابن مردويه من حديث عبد القدوس بن حبيب عن عطاء بن أبي رباح عن ابن عباس قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم في قوله " مسومين " قال " معلمين " وكان سيما الملائكة يوم بدر عمائم سود ويوم حنين عمائم حمر . وروي من حديث حسين بن مخارق عن سعيد عن الحكم عن مقسم عن ابن عباس قال : لم تقاتل الملائكة إلا يوم بدر وقال ابن إسحق حدثني من لا أتهم عن مقسم عن ابن عباس قال : كان سيما الملائكة يوم بدر عمائم بيض قد أرسلوها في ظهورهم ويوم حنين عمائم حمر . ولم تضرب الملائكة في يوم سوى يوم بدر وكانوا يكونون عددا ومددا لا يضربون ثم رواه عن الحسن بن عمارة عن الحكم عن مقسم عن ابن عباس فذكر نحوه .
   ​
   quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?nType=1&bm=&nSeg=0&l=arb&nSora=3&nAya=125&taf=KATHEER&tashkeel=1
2. Tafsir al-jalalayn:
   
   “بلى” يكفيكم ذلك وفي الأنفال بألف لأنه أمدهم أولا بها ثم صارت ثلاثة ثم صارت خمسة كما قال تعالى “إن تصبروا” على لقاء العدو “وتتقوا” الله في المخالفة “ويأتوكم” أي المشركون “من فورهم” وقتهم “هذا يمددكم ربكم بخمسة آلاف من الملائكة مسومين” بكسر الواو وفتحها أي معلمين وقد صبروا وأنجز الله وعده بأن قاتلت معهم الملائكة على خيل بلق عليهم عمائم صفر أو بيض أرسلوها بين أكتافهم
   ​
   quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=GALALEEN&nType=1&nSora=3&nAya=125
3. Wikipedia.
   ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%B9%D8%B1%D9%83%D8%A9_%D8%A8%D8%AF%D8%B1

 

[iaskquestions]

(Revelation 20:10)
“*And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet *had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

I’m just curious, Sam, how do you know that the “false prophet” is a reference to Mohammad?

 

[iaskquestions]

No answer, Sam?

 

[Sam_777]

No answer, Sam?

sorry, just saw that, stay tuned for my answer.

 

[Sam_777]

(Revelation 20:10)

“*And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet *had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

I’m just curious, Sam, how do you know that the “false prophet” is a reference to Mohammad?

• Who is the most famous prophet who denied the crucifixion of Jesus and the redemption theory.
• Who is the most famous prophet who came after Jesus and completely contradicted what Jesus taught.
• Who is the prophet who downgraded Jesus from Lord to least messenger. (R)
• Who is the prophet who downgraded Virgin Mary from “Mother of God” to his wife in paradise. (R)
• Who is the most famous prophet who spread a false religion which reached a wide geographical scope.
• Who is the most famous prophet who is a life taker.
• Who is the most famous prophet who practised violence.
• Who is the most famous prophet who said convert or die.
• Who is the most famous prophet who declared a holy war.
• Who is the most famous prophet who deceived billions of people from the start of Islam till now.

Enough said.

 

[iaskquestions]

Enough said.

I don’t think it refers to Mohammad. Look what Revelation says

“And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur.” (Rev 19:20)

As far as I know, Mohammad didn’t perform any signs. Also, his followers didn’t receive the “mark of the beast” (what is that?), did they? And they don’t “worship the image of the beast”, do they?

 

[cathopologist]

I don’t think it refers to Mohammad. Look what Revelation says

“And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur.” (Rev 19:20)

As far as I know, Mohammad didn’t perform any signs. Also, his followers didn’t receive the “mark of the beast” (what is that?), did they? And they don’t “worship the image of the beast”, do they?

You really want to know, iaskquestions? Visit this website:
66619.org/ Click on the spinning globe after the flash presentation and check out its contents (especially the one about 666 (The Quran)). I’m sure you’ll be just as i was when i visited it. I have to admit though, it did crack me up.

Also, the forumers have raised questions like this before: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=168162

 

[Sam_777]

As far as I know, Mohammad didn’t perform any signs.

The Quran, the night journey to heavens, and the some pretended miracles in hadith are enough.

his followers didn’t receive the “mark of the beast”

The forehead mark of performing Islamic prayer:
http://mostafez.jeeran.com/mostafez/files/moved_images/thumb/1_588926_1_34.jpg

And they don’t “worship the image of the beast”

The moon god:
http://www.bloomington.in.us/~lgthscac/islamiccrescentmoon.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/4684/kabba.gif

 

[iaskquestions]

That’s the first time I’ve seen the “mark of the beast”. I still find it hard to believe that the reference in Revelation is to Mohammad. And Muslims don’t worhsip that image of the “moon God”, do they? Can any Muslim answer?

 

[iaskquestions]

You really want to know, iaskquestions? Visit this website:

That’s just one person’s interpretation and it can be wrong. I rarely trust any other interpretation than an official interpretation of the Magesterium.

 

[cathopologist]

That’s just one person’s interpretation and it can be wrong. I rarely trust any other interpretation than an official interpretation of the Magesterium.

That’s exactly right. My purpose wasn’t to convince you that the Muslims are “satanic”. It was my intention to inform there are weird factions within Islam as there are within Christianity or those who profess to be “Christians” but are actually not.

 

[iaskquestions]

You’re trying to escape from the question I asked you! You didn’t give me a “yes” or a “no” to the question, “Did Mohammad sin or not?”

Your own Hadith proves that he sinned. That should be sufficient for you to realize that Mohammad cannot be greater than Jesus who was without sin.

According to the Muslim understanding of ‘sin’, the answer is ‘NO’.

According to the Christian understanding of ‘sin’, the answer is ‘YES’.

See, here’s the Muslim understanding of sin (link provided by Sister Amy)

islamqa.com/en/ref/1684/did%20adam%20sin

So as per this understanding, Adam clearly sinned and Mohammad too.

 

[iaskquestions]

No response, hamba2han? Are you convinced that Mohammad sinned and therefore he cannot be greater than the sinless Jesus?

 

[planten]

Am not sure where they got this teaching from, but this is the Islamic belief:

The Prophets (Alayhim Assalatu Wassalam), are infallibles of all sins, whether major, minor, or disbelief, and of all that is detestable/distasteful. It may be, however, that they commit insignificant lapses and inaccuracies [those are not true errors, as they usually indicate choosing the good, not the best. Secondly and most importantly, the Prophets, Alayhimus Salam, are immediately alerted to any lapses, and constantly directed by Allah towards the best].

**That was some true picture about all prophets, Moses, Jesus, Abraham, Adam, Noah and Lot, all. They were human and liable to make mistakes (to err). That was necessary that they make some mistakes so that people do not consider them as God. Only God, the One, is free from all weakness and blames.

I felt I should complete the picture presented by inJesus. Every one has a record of his deeds, mental or physical, open or hidden. That will become manifest for accountability in the next world. As inJesus said, every prophet has a clean slate because if ever they made any mistake, it was corrected by God in front of the people. God openly informed them (prophets) and so they could mend their ways.

The net result was there was nothing bad (wrong) in their life. They passed their time on earth according to the will of God. So their balance is clear.

In Islam we believe that all prophets are sinless. About Mary we believe that she was sinless and such that she was a believer of the highest order. She was so good that even the devil did not dare come near her. That is proved from the Quran 66:12 and by a special Hadith which I am not quoting here. Love and Peace to all.**

 

[planten]

No answer, Sam?

** Sam has given a long answer, a long list accusing Muhammad. But that is all wrong. There were three persons being awaited ( promised) at the time of Jesus. They were all different persons. They were as follows:

1. Elias
2. Messiah
3. That prophet (of Deut 18:18). If you do not know about that Prophet, please tell me. I will explain it to you.

For the above three person see John Ch.1 verse 19 onward as follows:

John the Baptist Denies Being the Christ
19Now this was John’s testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. 20He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Christ.[g]”
21They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?”
He said, “I am not.”
“Are you the Prophet?” (Should be "Are you That Prophet**?")
He answered, “No.”

22Finally they said, “Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”

23John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’ "[h]

24Now some Pharisees who had been sent 25questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the (That) Prophet?”

You can see clearly that people were waiting and looking for three persons. Elias, Jesus and That prophet. John the baptist had come in place of Elias. Jesus had come as the Messiah. Note that Messiah was not That prophet otherwise people will not ask for that prophet and for the Messiah separately. If Messiah was to be That prophet then they should not have asked for him separately.

There was the news of the coming of another prophet after Jesus. Jesus himself told that the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to another nation… See mathew 21:33-46

**The Parable of the Tenants
33"Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. 34When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35"The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

38"But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40"Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"

41"He will bring those wretches to a wretched end," they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

42Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures:
" ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone[h];
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’*?

43"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."[j]***

45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them. 46They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.

All that shows another prophet was to come after Jesus. Muhammad brought a goodname to Jesus. These christians had believed that Jesus was a cursed person, having died on the cross. They are totally mistaken and guilty.

 

[inJESUS]

You can see clearly that people were waiting and looking for three persons. Elias, Jesus and That prophet. John the baptist had come in place of Elias. Jesus had come as the Messiah. Note that Messiah was not That prophet otherwise people will not ask for that prophet and for the Messiah separately. If Messiah was to be That prophet then they should not have asked for him separately.

 

[Angelos]

Sam has given a long answer, a long list accusing Muhammad. But that is all wrong. There were three persons being awaited ( promised) at the time of Jesus. They were all different persons. They were as follows:

1. Elias
2. Messiah
3. That prophet (of Deut 18:18). If you do not know about that Prophet, please tell me. I will explain it to you.

You can see clearly that people were waiting and looking for three persons. Elias, Jesus and That prophet. John the baptist had come in place of Elias. Jesus had come as the Messiah. Note that Messiah was not That prophet otherwise people will not ask for that prophet and for the Messiah separately. If Messiah was to be That prophet then they should not have asked for him separately.

Your conclusion is faulty since it is apparently based on the presumptions of those people questioning John the Baptist. Those people THOUGHT that the promised prophet of Deuteronomy would be a different person than the promised Messiah. Their expectations were not necessarily true since they were assumptions rather than biblical facts.

According to the accounts in the NT, those same people also mistakenly supposed that John the Baptist was literally the same person as Elijah the prophet, which was refuted by Jesus.

Even if we deny the accouns in the NT and consider those people’s presumptions as reliable biblical facts for your sake for a minute, this does not make Mohammad THAT prophet predicted in Deuteronomy. This is because Moses predicted the coming of a JEWISH prophet from among the ISRAELITES for the ISRAELITES. If we apply these three criteria to Mohammad, we see that He cannot be THE PROPHET because:

1. Mohammad was not Jewish, but pagan. (He adhered to monotheism at the age of 40!)
2. Mohammad was not an Israelite, but an Arab.
3. Mohammad was not sent to Israelites, but to Arabs.

Conclusion: Mohammad is NOT the prophet.

There was the news of the coming of another prophet after Jesus. Jesus himself told that the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to another nation… See mathew 21:33-46

The Parable of the Tenants
33"Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. 34When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35"The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

38"But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40"Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"

41"He will bring those wretches to a wretched end," they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

42Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures:
" ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone[h];
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’*?

43"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."[j]*

45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them. 46They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.

All that shows another prophet was to come after Jesus. Muhammad brought a goodname to Jesus. These christians had believed that Jesus was a cursed person, having died on the cross. They are totally mistaken and guilty.

I do not know what makes you reach the conclusion that ANOTHER prophet will be sent after Jesus. What Jesus says is that the Kingdom of God will be taken away from Jews and given to ANOTHER NATION that will produce fruit. Nothing definite here! I fail to see how the phrase ANOTHER NATION primarily and crucially pertains to ARABS??? Jesus does not give the name of a nation since he means that the Kingdom of God will be granted to ANY NATION THAT PRODUCES FRUIT in contrast to THE nation of Israel.

Interestingly, this parable emphasises that Jesus is the LAST chain and culmination of the divine revelation as THE SON. He is the LAST.

 

[planten]

The Quran, the night journey to heavens, and the some pretended miracles in hadith are enough.

The moon god:
http://www.bloomington.in.us/~lgthscac/islamiccrescentmoon.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/4684/kabba.gif

**Sam, so sadly, I have to say that you are misdirecting the matter too much. Do the muslims have another God beside Allah?? Never. Do the muslims have a moon god?? Never. Then what are you teaching by showing the cresent?? May I ask that you have a cross God +. **You worship a cross God? Cresent is just a sybmol. You are intentionally creating a bad situation with your photos of the terrorists. You should not do that to gain some flimsy advantage. It won’t help you any.
You are trying to confuse the matter.

May I sak you about your Sun God and Moon God, i.e. About your Sun Day And Mon day?

You have not been able to prove anything about the best man on earth. Even Michael Pollard designated Muhammad as number One man of the 100 greatest men of the world of all times. See his book please. The best and the most successful man whom Jesus and Moses praised and King Soloman sang his songs. He was the most praised person. That is the meaning of the word “Muhammad” in Arabic.

I had said that all prophets are sinless. But christians want that only Jesus should be sinless.

 

[planten]

Angelos, from the parable of the tenants, it is easy to understand that some one came after the son. Please see below:

**The Parable of the Tenants
33"Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. 34When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35"The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

38"But **when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ ****39So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40"**Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?" **

41"He will bring those wretches to a wretched end," they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

42Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures:
" ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone[h];
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’*?

43"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.* 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."[j]

45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them. 46They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.

**The vineyard is the world. The tenants are the people of this world. Collection of the fruits is the doing of good works in the way of God. The servants who were sent to collect the fruit are the prophets of God who appeared on earth from time to time, many of them.
The son is Jesus who appeared many years after the prophets. the tenants put him on the cross to kill him.

Jesus himself is telling that parable to his followers. He said “What will happen when the Owner will himself come?” The Owner is the God himself. He will come and punish the tenants and give the garden to another people (Not Jews or christians) who willbring the fruit properly (Meaning establishing a proper system of justice and prayers to God). and establishing Peace in the world.

The coming of Muhammad is the coming of God himself. It is described in the Quran as such.**

 

[beckycmarie]

• Who is the most famous prophet who denied the crucifixion of Jesus and the redemption theory.
• Who is the most famous prophet who came after Jesus and completely contradicted what Jesus taught.
• Who is the prophet who downgraded Jesus from Lord to least messenger. (R)
• Who is the prophet who downgraded Virgin Mary from “Mother of God” to his wife in paradise. (R)
• Who is the most famous prophet who spread a false religion which reached a wide geographical scope.
• Who is the most famous prophet who is a life taker.
• Who is the most famous prophet who practised violence.
• Who is the most famous prophet who said convert or die.
• Who is the most famous prophet who declared a holy war.
• Who is the most famous prophet who deceived billions of people from the start of Islam till now.

Enough said.

That is a fantastic post, Sam777. Without a doubt Muhammed was a tremendous false prophet, and certainly many more came after him and more will continue to come until the end of this world.

I think the spirit of false prophecy and the spirit of the anti-Christ is alive and well today, and subtly fooling the entire world into turning against God under the disguise of false “human rights.”

I look at Canada, the European Union, and the United States and see how quickly and quietly the anti-gospel is taking over, preaching the gospel of death, in which contraception, promiscuity, abortion, homosexuality, and euthanasia are to be celebrated and supported, and anyone who thinks otherwise is intolerant and ignorant. Not only are people telling the truth ridiculed, but in many instances they are brought before “human rights tribunals” and punished for their “intolerance.”

As dangerous, if not more than Muhammad, is this increasing loss of the sense of sin and the mindless acceptance of evil things, calling them good.

Reminds me of that song, “Anything Goes:”

'The world has gone mad today/ and good’s bad today/ and right’s wrong today/ and day’s night today . . ."