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thomasf
Guest
LOL! That was funny.
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Reuben_J
Guest
There are two groups here you know who, who speak quite the same language on polygamy, quite similar about their prophets but you better do not even try to mention them.
There is a thread, Mormonwiki edited … , which I just gone through in my curiosity to know about them. If what it says is true, then Joseph Smith should be a higher prophet than Mohammad if it is in term of their polygamous marriage. JS had thirty wives. Now I don’t think Mohammad could beat that though he might have the edge since he had slave girls which are not counted as wives.
What I am trying to say, none of this is found in the Bible, no matter how hard they try to persuade you that it is otherwise. It makes me shudder to think that such marriage can be ‘sealed marriage’ and ‘commanded by God’ but then again who are we to say no; God does not talk to us. Is there any smilies to denote resignation?
There is a thread, Mormonwiki edited … , which I just gone through in my curiosity to know about them. If what it says is true, then Joseph Smith should be a higher prophet than Mohammad if it is in term of their polygamous marriage. JS had thirty wives. Now I don’t think Mohammad could beat that though he might have the edge since he had slave girls which are not counted as wives.
What I am trying to say, none of this is found in the Bible, no matter how hard they try to persuade you that it is otherwise. It makes me shudder to think that such marriage can be ‘sealed marriage’ and ‘commanded by God’ but then again who are we to say no; God does not talk to us. Is there any smilies to denote resignation?
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DV56
Guest
Quite twisted!
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hamba2han
Guest
Let us also have a look at the following passage in the New Testament:
Matthew 22:23-33
23 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question.
24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him.
25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother.
26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh.
27 Finally, the woman died.
28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you,
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
The Jews were referring to Deuteronomy 25:5 from the Old Testament where it states that if a woman’s husband dies, and she didn’t have any kids from him, then she must marry his brother regardless whether he had a wife or not.
As we can see from the above passage, when the Jews brought this situation up to Jesus (pbuh) in Matthew 22:24-28, Jesus did NOT prohibit at all for the childless widow to marry her husband’s brother (even if he were married). Instead, Jesus replied to them by saying that we do not marry in heaven, and we will be like angels in heaven (Matthew 22:30).
In other words, if Jesus (pbuh) allowed for a widow to marry her former husband’s brother even if he were married, then this negates the Christians’ claim about the Bible prohibiting polygamy.
Matthew 22:23-33
23 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question.
24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him.
25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother.
26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh.
27 Finally, the woman died.
28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you,
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
The Jews were referring to Deuteronomy 25:5 from the Old Testament where it states that if a woman’s husband dies, and she didn’t have any kids from him, then she must marry his brother regardless whether he had a wife or not.
As we can see from the above passage, when the Jews brought this situation up to Jesus (pbuh) in Matthew 22:24-28, Jesus did NOT prohibit at all for the childless widow to marry her husband’s brother (even if he were married). Instead, Jesus replied to them by saying that we do not marry in heaven, and we will be like angels in heaven (Matthew 22:30).
In other words, if Jesus (pbuh) allowed for a widow to marry her former husband’s brother even if he were married, then this negates the Christians’ claim about the Bible prohibiting polygamy.
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DV56
Guest
Hamba, if you use the bible to support part of what you’ve been misguided into believing, then why don’t you use it to support Christ’s claim as being God. The Father and I are one!!!
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dolphinlove
Guest
i dont know what stuff your smoking, but you gotta give it up!
where does it say in this verse that any of the brothers are already married??
the things you make up hamba, i think you have gone to the school of planten’s story telling school.
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hamba2han
Guest
That is an issue for another thread, I think.
In the meantime, let us focus on the specific matter of the permissibility of polygamy according to the Bible.
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DV56
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You can’t pick and choose from a the bible to support your point, then call the rest corrupt. That is for this thread.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Hamba,
Christ also said divorce was allowed in ancient times because of the stubbornness of the men… But creation began with one man and one woman and the Koran affirms this as well…
Do any Muslim men practice self-control? Do any see any value in being chaste as I see the burden is all on the women…
And women only outlive men by just a few years…so you really can’t use that excuse.
And you read the Bible through a Muslim filter…you miss the passages. I do know the Koran’s account of creation and it supports the Bible’s version.
To throw torch in, I do have negative impressions of men who use a group of women for sex. I don’t see any true love in that, and it looks debasing on the part of the man. Like he doesn’t have very good sexual moral standards and is like the loose men and women we see here.
I will never forget reading the sad story of a poor Arab woman whose picture was taken for a book from the Holy Land…she was poor and weather beaten, standing against the wall, looking so sad…she said her husband had a new wife. And all that separated them at night between her and their love making was a little curtain. So the man doesn’t sin.
And then there are Christian Lebanese men who have to deal with very jealous Arabs…they have to explain to them the reason for their middle class lifestyle is that they have just one woman, and not multiple wives and their children…so practicing polygamy in the Middle East—meaning the arid terrain and the difficulty to grow food – is a pretty risky lifestyle.
So in the West, we have men and women who are very visible in their sexual lifestyles…and I perceive Muslim men in their treatment of women and their inability to be with one woman just as immoral.
Christ also said divorce was allowed in ancient times because of the stubbornness of the men… But creation began with one man and one woman and the Koran affirms this as well…
Do any Muslim men practice self-control? Do any see any value in being chaste as I see the burden is all on the women…
And women only outlive men by just a few years…so you really can’t use that excuse.
And you read the Bible through a Muslim filter…you miss the passages. I do know the Koran’s account of creation and it supports the Bible’s version.
To throw torch in, I do have negative impressions of men who use a group of women for sex. I don’t see any true love in that, and it looks debasing on the part of the man. Like he doesn’t have very good sexual moral standards and is like the loose men and women we see here.
I will never forget reading the sad story of a poor Arab woman whose picture was taken for a book from the Holy Land…she was poor and weather beaten, standing against the wall, looking so sad…she said her husband had a new wife. And all that separated them at night between her and their love making was a little curtain. So the man doesn’t sin.
And then there are Christian Lebanese men who have to deal with very jealous Arabs…they have to explain to them the reason for their middle class lifestyle is that they have just one woman, and not multiple wives and their children…so practicing polygamy in the Middle East—meaning the arid terrain and the difficulty to grow food – is a pretty risky lifestyle.
So in the West, we have men and women who are very visible in their sexual lifestyles…and I perceive Muslim men in their treatment of women and their inability to be with one woman just as immoral.
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DV56
Guest
But it’s islam! Man is the ruler of the universe. muslim men supercede God!
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DV56
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Regarding Mohhamad,
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many.
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hamba2han
Guest
" Do any Muslim men practice self-control? Do any see any value in being chaste as I see the burden is all on the women…"
It is best that the Qur’an itself answer your contention that unlike Muslim women, Muslim men are not required to be chaste.
Al-Qur’an, 024.030&31
Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband’s fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.
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DV56
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If muslim men are able to control themselves, then why do muslim women have to look like a sack of potatoes?
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Jay53
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Was this a typo?
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hamba2han
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You should not judge Islam by the way how some Muslims act and behave.
The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had many wives but every one of them stayed separately in a home of her own.
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dolphinlove
Guest
again another quote from the quran showing how to supress women
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hamba2han
Guest
Before I am once again unfairly accused of going off on a tangent and derailing the thread, it is best that we get back to the topic of the thread i.e. the permissibility of polygamy according to the Bible.
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DV56
Guest
I think we’re all interested in discussing this. No one is going to take offense to the subject.
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hamba2han
Guest
For anyone here who wishes to have meaningful and lengthy discussions on various aspects of Islam that you may or perhaps more likely, may not agree with, then I really would suggest that you join a Muslim forum where there are many Muslims with whom you would be able to engage in far more substantive discussions than what you would get from the few Muslims on CAF.
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DV56
Guest
I find that an interesting comment. Because you come here as an unbeliever and tell Christians how to interpret the New Testament. Shame on you.
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