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Hodos
Guest
Stay with me on this. Douay Rheims.
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steve-b
Guest
You tried to apply Protestant theology to Augustine post 36 and it doesn’t work.steve-b:
You challenged my position that Protestants can revere Augustine? I am not seeing the connection between challenging our reason that we can revere Augustine, and trying to argue with me about sources of doctrinal authority. Sorry Charlie, its your rabbit hole.
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steve-b
Guest
Stay with me. Quote the text
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Hodos
Guest
You’re killing me Smalls (gratuitous Sandlot quotation). Douay Rheims Word search → Do Penance (the phrase is used multiple times instead of Repent). Trying to actually get you to open your Bible rather than look up articles to cut and paste responses from. There is in fact a method to the madness.
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blackforest
Well-known member
Short answer - No, he wasn’t Catholic. In St. Augustine’s time, there were no such thing as Catholic Christians. There weren’t even any Orthodox Christians. There were only early Christians.
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AugustineFanNYC
Guest
Sure, technically you’re 100% correct.
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steve-b
Guest
I asked for a reference properly referenced. That’s not properly referenced.steve-b:
You’re killing me Smalls (gratuitous Sandlot quotation). Douay Rheims Word search → Do Penance (the phrase is used multiple times instead of Repent). Trying to actually get you to open your Bible rather than look up articles to cut and paste responses from. There is in fact a method to the madness.
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steve-b
Guest
From the Greek NT study bible not an English translation
Acts 9:31 “the church throughout all ἐκκλησία,καθ’,ὅλης ,τῆς , = the Kataholos Church.
Acts 9:31 the church throughout all ἐκκλησία καθ’ ὅλης τῆς
ἐκκλησία = church ,
καθ’ = according to ,
ὅλης = whole / all / complete / universal ,
τῆς = the ,
= the Kataholos Church = the Catholic Church.
The proper name Catholic Church is used by
Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch from ~69 a.d. to ~107 a.d. ordained by the apostles, and direct disciple of St John. It was in Antioch where the disciples were first called Christian Acts 11:26 Acts 11:26 RSVCE - and when he had found him, he brought - Bible Gateway
Ignatius in his writings uses both “Christian” and “Catholic Church” here, (Christian) in (ch 2) and Catholic Church in (ch 8), From his Epistle to the Smyrnæans http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm . He also writes schismatics won’t be going to heaven, from his _Epistle to the Philadelphians (ch 3)_ . http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0108.htm .
Where would Ignatius learn to teach that warning and consequence for one’s soul, for committing and remaining in the sin of schism / division /schism from the Catholic Church?
It’s from St Paul
Romans 16:17-20 Rom16:17-20 RSVCE - Final Instructions - I appeal to you, - Bible Gateway
Galatians 5:19-21 Gal 5:19-21 RSVCE - Now the works of the flesh are plain: - Bible Gateway
both quotes use the same Greek word [διχοστασίαι,] for dissension / division /schism [http://bibleapps.com/greek/1370.htm] And the consequence for that sin if one won’t return to the Catholic Church? Paul says “I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God”. IOW they go to hell when they die
The only Church Jesus established on Peter and those in union with him? The Catholic Church
That condemnation for division came from Jesus who does NOT approve of division from His Church John 17:20-23 Jn 17:20-23 RSVCE - “I do not pray for these only, but - Bible Gateway , and since the HS only teaches what comes from Jesus John 16:12-15 Jn 16:12-15 RSVCE - “I have yet many things to say to - Bible Gateway no one then can say the HS inspired THEM to divide, or inspired all the dissensions / divisions / schisms we see today in Christianity.
I can continue
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steve-b
Guest
Technically, Re: Catholic, he’s 100% wrong. See my previous post.blackforest:
Sure, technically you’re 100% correct.
As for E Orthodox, they didn’t exist then.
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AugustineFanNYC
Guest
I guess you’re right too, considering that whenever Catholics were brought up by my reformed friends they’d say, “we’re the true catholics”. They were referencing that they share the original intent of the church fathers and thus they’re the real catholics.
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steve-b
Guest
And they use the argument simple history refutes. We know who the father of the reformation is and who is the origin behind every division including the “REFORMED” version.steve-b:
I guess you’re right too, considering that whenever Catholics were brought up by my reformed friends they’d say, “we’re the true catholics”. They were referencing that they share the original intent of the church fathers and thus they’re the real catholics.
Re: Divisions, schisms, heresies, forming into sects, etc from the one Church Jesus established on Peter and those in complete union with Peter, that activity was all and always condemned activity by scripture. As in if one dies in that sin they won’t be going to heaven. Not my words, they come from Paul, who got that understanding from the Holy Spirit, who got that from Jesus.
Here’s the scriptural proof (properly referenced)
Selecting just one particular deadly sin.
From the Greek NT
διχοστασίαι, = dissension, sedition, stand apart,
divisions which wrongly separate people into pointless (groundless) factions.
Point being:
That same Greek word is used in the 2 following scripture selections. Given one’s translation they use, the English word in these passages might be different. But in the Greek translation, it’s the same Greek word therefore the same activity and the same condemnation is the same in both scripture selections
Rom 16:
“17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions διχοστασίας dichostasia and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I would have you wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil; 20 then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.”
Gal 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension διχοστασίας dichostasia , party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Who is behind (dissension, sedition, stand apart, divisions which wrongly separate people into pointless (groundless factions) ?. SATAN
If one dies in that sin, where do they go? Hell. That’s why some sins are deemed deadly (mortal). Because of their ability to send one to hell.
As one can see, I’m just passing on the information.
Also
Protestants, are NOT Catholics, no matter what name they want to go by.
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Mintaka
Guest
You’re putting the theta as a t. It’s kath’ holos.
I admit that the historical pronunciation of the letter theta was probably a voiced t, and not a voiced or unvoiced “th” as in Old English thorn or edh. But it’s properly transcribed into English as a “th.”
Continue as you were.
I admit that the historical pronunciation of the letter theta was probably a voiced t, and not a voiced or unvoiced “th” as in Old English thorn or edh. But it’s properly transcribed into English as a “th.”
Continue as you were.
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steve-b
Guest
You’re putting the theta as a t. It’s kath’ holos.
I admit that the historical pronunciation of the letter theta was probably a voiced t, and not a voiced or unvoiced “th” as in Old English thorn or edh. But it’s properly transcribed into English as a “th.”
Continue as you were.
I see that Catholic | Catholic Answers
Here’s the source I used combining the words
καθ’ transliteration = ( katá ) is written ’ kat ’ or ’ kath ’ before a vowel.
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AugustineFanNYC
Guest
Steve B, what’s your opinion of E. Orthodox?
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