Was St.Patrick a Protestant?

[Paul_Rimmer]

St. Patrick was Catholic. He wears the Green like a good Catholic. I see no orange on the man.

I love it. :irish3:

 

[The_Scott]

i heard that he was actually a 7th day adventist

You mean St. Patrick wasn’t Jewish?

 

[CaptainPicard]

I’ll organize quotes from these works of St. Patrick and his nephew and fellow missionary, St. Secundius, into sections pertaining to Catholic doctrine. Below these are links to the works I’m citing.

He was a Bishop:
"Besides, he told me himself: ‘See, the rank of bishop goes to you’—of which I was not worthy. " (Con 32)

“And then I was attacked by a goodly number of my elders, who [brought up] my sins against my arduous episcopate.” (Con 26)

“I am Patrick, yes a sinner and indeed untaught; yet I am established here in Ireland where I profess myself bishop.” (letter 1)

"I speak out too for love of my neighbors who are my only sons " (letter 1)

"even if the enemy reveals h’s true envy through the tyranny of Coroticus, who fears neither God nor the priests whom he has chosen and to whom he has given the highest divine power, namely that “those whom they bind on earth are bound in heaven.” (letter 6)

“Of the Bishop Patrick, a man blessed in Christ;” (Hymn Audite)

“Christ chose him [St. Patrick] to be his vicar on the earth,” (Hymn Xristus)

Sacrament of Confirmation:
"I am greatly God’s debtor, because he granted me so much grace, that through me many people would be reborn in God, and soon a after confirmed, and that clergy would be ordained everywhere for them, " (Con 38)

“More, I spent for you so that they would receive me. And I went about among you, and everywhere for your sake, in danger, and as far as the outermost regions beyond which no one lived, and where no one had ever penetrated before, to baptize or to ordain clergy or to confirm people.” (Con 51)

“I myself confirmed them in Christ.” (letter 2)

“The very next day after my new converts, dressed all in white, were anointed with chrism, even as it was still gleaming upon their foreheads, they were cruelly cut down and killed by the swords of these same devilish men.” (letter 3)

**Monasticism **
“the sons of the Irish [Scotti] and the daughters of the chieftains are to be seen as monks and virgins of Christ.” (con 41)

“Now I have lost count how many sons and daughters of the kings of the Scotti have become monks and virgins of Christ. “ (letter 12)

Penance
"not until the time comes when they do penances so harsh that their tears pour out to God, " (letter 7)

Baptismal regeneration
“To whom he gives the eternal grace of the laver of salvation;” (hymn nomen)

Church built on Peter
“Steadfast in the fear of the Lord, and immovable in faith;
On whom, as on Peter, the Church is built;
Who received his Apostleship from God.
The gates of hell shall not prevail against him.” (hymn Constans)

Was St. Patrick possibly a stigmatic?
“Humble, through fear of God, both in spirit and behaviour,
Upon whom on account of his good actions rests the Spirit of the Lord:
Who beareth in his righteous flesh the marks of Christ,” (hymn Humilis.)
– I realize that this is just a quote from the NT and is pretty vague, but am putting it here as a point of interest.

Confession
They brought up against me after thirty years an occurrence I had confessed before becoming a deacon. (con 27)

It doesn’t describe the form of his confession, but is worth mentioning, I think.

Uses the deuterocannon
"And if my own do not want to know me, well and good, “a prophet is not honored in his own country.” Indeed, perhaps we are not “from the same sheepfold,” or possibly we do not have “one and the same Father for our God.” As he says, “He who is not with me, is against me” and he who “does not gather with me, scatters.” We are at cross purposes: “One destroys; another builds.” “I do not seek things that are mine.” Not by my grace, but it is God “who has given such care in my heart,” so that I should be among “the hunters or fishers” whom God foretold “in those final days.” (letter 11)

– The bolded quote is from Sirach 34:23 This quote occurs in the middle of several scriptural quotations.

Merit
Hear all ye who love God, the holy merits
Of the Bishop Patrick, a man blessed in Christ (hymn audite)

Veneration of Saints
“He [St. Patrick] has glory with Christ, and honour in this world,
Being venerated by all as the angel of God;” (hymn gloriam)

In conclusion, the writings I looked at were pretty short and weren’t catechetical writings. The writings weren’t meant to teach the doctrines of the Church (one was a sort of small autobiography, the other an angry letter, and the hymn was a hymn of praise for St. Patrick) and yet we find in them several distinctly Catholic doctrines mentioned as if they were taken for granted.

The works I quoted:
St. Patrick’s Confession
ccel.org/ccel/patrick/confession.toc.html

St. Patrick’s Letter to the Soldiers of Coroticus
maryjones.us/ctexts/p02.html

And here’s St. Secundinus’s Hymn of St. Patrick
irishchristian.net/history/stpatrick/secundicus.html

St. Secundius was St. Patrick’s nephew who helped him in his missionary work. I’m going to assume that his views wouldn’t be radically different than those of his associate, St. Patrick and thus use his hymn (alongside St. Patrick’s own writings) as a means of figuring out what St. Patrick believed.

 

[JustaServant]

Can you give us a complete list of people who were baptist before the baptist sect was founded in the 16th century?

If my history is correct, I believe St. Patrick died well before the Reformation started.

TheOldMan is a hit and run poster. He posts the outrageous, then hightails it when someone asks him to provide proof.

 

[theoldman]

TheOldMan is a hit and run poster. He posts the outrageous, then hightails it when someone asks him to provide proof.

Oh Hum

 

[theoldman]

Can you give us a complete list of people who were baptist before the baptist sect was founded in the 16th century?

If my history is correct, I believe St. Patrick died well before the Reformation started.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Andrew.and the other apostles except Judas, he was Catholic

 

[Tantum_ergo]

St.Patrick was a Christian - twinc

Yes, and Catholics are Christian.

But were there any Christians of St. Patrick’s time who were not in communion with Rome or Constantinople (Western or Eastern in area, but still considering themselves as both parts of one whole, single, unified Christendom?) I mean, there were all sorts of ‘lapsed’ Christians who adhered to various heresies (iconoclassicism, semi Pelegianism, gnosticism, pockets of Arians, Nestorians, monophysites, etc.) but there weren’t people who said, "Oh, I am JUST a Christian, I’m not affiliated with the Catholic Church (Western or Eastern), I’m a ‘non-denom’, or Baptist, or "protestant’.

So just saying “Christian” for somebody who lived way before people who are identified as Christians TODAY might be misinterpreted as meaning that they were the same type of Christian (i.e. Protestant) then as those exist today. They weren’t.

 

[Tomster]

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Andrew.and the other apostles except Judas, he was Catholic

A Baptist told me some time ago that he actually believed St. John the Baptist founded the Baptist church. I asked him where did he find that in the Bible. He couldn’t give an answer.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Andrew.and the other apostles except Judas, he was Catholic

Oh we agree Judas was Catholic (along with the others whom you incorrectly state as Baptists, nice try). . .nobody says that individual Catholics can’t err, can’t sin, can’t turn aside from Christ (just like Baptists can err, sin, turn aside from Christ. . .or just like any human, whatever his/her faith or lack thereof).

But if your intention was to state that the ‘real Christians’ were always Baptists, and only the ‘bad guys’ turned out to be Catholics, that’s the kind of ‘joke’ that is meant as an offense, but is then CLAIMED as a joke,

Oh, I was only FOOLING, can’t you people take a joke, ha ha ha ha.

You can get away with it once on a thread (we’ll give people the benefit of the doubt). . .but if you keep up with it, having already been ‘questioned’ by some who don’t see it as ‘humorous’. . .then it doesn’t fly as a joke and it is clearly meant as a slur.

So. . .theoldman–your “Baptist” claims (even if you think they are ‘funny’). . .aren’t. Not more than ‘once.’

We respectfully request that you either make it clear that you are ‘joking’ by saying, “J/K” (just kidding) in your ‘joke posts’. . .and if not, we can then understand that your remarks are perfectly serious and meant to be taken seriously. . .or you refrain from posting on the subject.

There are a lot of people who want to talk about the subject, and it takes time away to have to constantly ASK you, “Wait, are you joking”? If you were joking before about the “Baptist” part, then say so and don’t keep ON joking. If you weren’t joking, say you weren’t and we’ll know your ‘funny’ jokey style masks your serious intent.

 

[Tomster]

Oh we agree Judas was Catholic (along with the others whom you incorrectly state as Baptists, nice try). . .nobody says that individual Catholics can’t err, can’t sin, can’t turn aside from Christ (just like Baptists can err, sin, turn aside from Christ. . .or just like any human, whatever his/her faith or lack thereof).

But if your intention was to state that the ‘real Christians’ were always Baptists, and only the ‘bad guys’ turned out to be Catholics, that’s the kind of ‘joke’ that is meant as an offense, but is then CLAIMED as a joke,

Oh, I was only FOOLING, can’t you people take a joke, ha ha ha ha.

You can get away with it once on a thread (we’ll give people the benefit of the doubt). . .but if you keep up with it, having already been ‘questioned’ by some who don’t see it as ‘humorous’. . .then it doesn’t fly as a joke and it is clearly meant as a slur.

So. . .theoldman–your “Baptist” claims (even if you think they are ‘funny’). . .aren’t. Not more than ‘once.’

We respectfully request that you either make it clear that you are ‘joking’ by saying, “J/K” (just kidding) in your ‘joke posts’. . .and if not, we can then understand that your remarks are perfectly serious and meant to be taken seriously. . .or you refrain from posting on the subject.

There are a lot of people who want to talk about the subject, and it takes time away to have to constantly ASK you, “Wait, are you joking”? If you were joking before about the “Baptist” part, then say so and don’t keep ON joking. If you weren’t joking, say you weren’t and we’ll know your ‘funny’ jokey style masks your serious intent.

Five will get you ten he is serious. WOW! I just realized that would be gambling. Sorry, if I offended your sensibilities and sensitivity in this regard theoldman. Heaven forbid that I would entice anyone to participate in this type of immoral behavior - a behavior that would damn all participants to everlasting fire - unless we were already saved in which case it wouldn’t matter what we did anyway, unless we were never saved in the first place even though we thought we were. :whacky:

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Andrew.and the other apostles except Judas, he was Catholic

lol, good joke. I get your humor, so there are at least two of us

Oh we agree Judas was Catholic (along with the others whom you incorrectly state as Baptists, nice try). . .nobody says that individual Catholics can’t err, can’t sin, can’t turn aside from Christ (just like Baptists can err, sin, turn aside from Christ. . .or just like any human, whatever his/her faith or lack thereof).

But if your intention was to state that the ‘real Christians’ were always Baptists, and only the ‘bad guys’ turned out to be Catholics, that’s the kind of ‘joke’ that is meant as an offense, but is then CLAIMED as a joke,

Oh, I was only FOOLING, can’t you people take a joke, ha ha ha ha.

You can get away with it once on a thread (we’ll give people the benefit of the doubt). . .but if you keep up with it, having already been ‘questioned’ by some who don’t see it as ‘humorous’. . .then it doesn’t fly as a joke and it is clearly meant as a slur.

So. . .theoldman–your “Baptist” claims (even if you think they are ‘funny’). . .aren’t. Not more than ‘once.’

We respectfully request that you either make it clear that you are ‘joking’ by saying, “J/K” (just kidding) in your ‘joke posts’. . .and if not, we can then understand that your remarks are perfectly serious and meant to be taken seriously. . .or you refrain from posting on the subject.

There are a lot of people who want to talk about the subject, and it takes time away to have to constantly ASK you, “Wait, are you joking”? If you were joking before about the “Baptist” part, then say so and don’t keep ON joking. If you weren’t joking, say you weren’t and we’ll know your ‘funny’ jokey style masks your serious intent.

Honestly, why pay this man any mind? Lack of a knowledge of history should exempt a person from discussing history. I will not discuss the battle of the bulge, for instance.

Five will get you ten he is serious.

Can I second that?

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

Five will get you ten he is serious. WOW! I just realized that would be gambling. Sorry, if I offended your sensibilities and sensitivity in this regard theoldman. Heaven forbid that I would entice anyone to participate in this type of immoral behavior - a behavior that would damn all participants to everlasting fire - unless we were already saved in which case it wouldn’t matter what we did anyway, unless we were never saved in the first place even though we thought we were. :whacky:

lol, I posted then saw your edit. I like it!!! It actually made me laugh out loud.

FSC

 

[CWBetts]

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Andrew.and the other apostles except Judas, he was Catholic

Your understanding of what the Apostles taught is fairly weak. No, let me rephrase that: You have no idea what the apostles taught. The Theology of the Early Church, starting with Jesus’ earthly ministry, was thoroughly Catholic.

 

[Tomster]

lol, good joke. I get your humor, so there are at least two of us

Honestly, why pay this man any mind? Lack of a knowledge of history should exempt a person from discussing history. I will not discuss the battle of the bulge, for instance.

Can I second that?

You may even third it.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Jokes are fine in their proper place.

Now I do like history, literature, etc. (but I don’t know any math beyond college algebra for example, so obviously I’d really have to ‘learn’ higher math if I wanted to discuss something intelligently. If somebody were trustworthy and told me that some function was X, I could accept it even though I personally didn’t have the knowledge to verify it on my own. . .but how do I know a person is trustworthy? Anybody can come on a message board and claim to be a math professor, but a claim is not necessarily a truth.)

So if somebody comes across with a statement (even if it’s a surface funny) that might, just possibly, be construed as a truth by somebody who doesn’t have knowledge. . .I’ll try to ‘get the truth out’ even if I’m looked on as a killjoy. I’m a parent, I KNOW I’m a killjoy!

Most people with a historical ‘knowledge’ know that there are many, many accepted ‘facts’ out there that are absolutely wrong. . .but because a lot of people have perpetuated the wrongs as fact, and a lot of others don’t feel it’s ‘worth the bother’ to correct the wrongs, those wrongs still get taught as facts, over and over and over. (Look up “Richard the III and the Princes in the tower.”) It is a pain to stand up and look like a pedantic ‘killjoy’ by pointing out that something presented (even in ‘fun’) as a fact. . isn’t. . .but it’s necessary.

 

[Paul_Rimmer]

The old man’s response in this forum is a prime example of Poe’s Law:

“Poe’s Law points out that it is hard to tell parodies of fundamentalism (or, more generally, any crackpot theory) from the real thing, since they both seem equally insane.”

I can’t tell if he’s joking or not. I don’t think anyone could, not matter how much he insisted (even if he attempted to provide reasons in his defense). The concept is too absurd even to be considered by a rational mind, except as a joke.

So I’ll give the gentleman the benefit of the doubt, and think him a satirist. A funny one at that.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

EDITED: I’m a parent, I KNOW I’m a killjoy!

LOL AWESOME!!

The old man’s response in this forum is a prime example of Poe’s Law:

“Poe’s Law points out that it is hard to tell parodies of fundamentalism (or, more generally, any crackpot theory) from the real thing, since they both seem equally insane.”

I can’t tell if he’s joking or not. I don’t think anyone could, not matter how much he insisted (even if he attempted to provide reasons in his defense). The concept is too absurd even to be considered by a rational mind, except as a joke.

So I’ll give the gentleman the benefit of the doubt, and think him a satirist. A funny one at that.

I like Poe’s law. And I too will give him the benefit of the doubt, while being reasonably sure that he is serious.

FSC

 

[Tomster]

The old man’s response in this forum is a prime example of Poe’s Law:

“Poe’s Law points out that it is hard to tell parodies of fundamentalism (or, more generally, any crackpot theory) from the real thing, since they both seem equally insane.”

I can’t tell if he’s joking or not. I don’t think anyone could, not matter how much he insisted (even if he attempted to provide reasons in his defense). The concept is too absurd even to be considered by a rational mind, except as a joke.

So I’ll give the gentleman the benefit of the doubt, and think him a satirist. A funny one at that.

Thanks Paul. You are a gentleman.

Any bets on Paul’s assessment?

Excuse me while I call my Vegas bookie and see what the line is on this. :hey_bud:

St. Jerome, patron saint of crusty old curmudgeons like me, pray for me!

 

[VetA]

You mean St. Patrick wasn’t Jewish?

yeah but i retract my previous statment, i have reason to believe that he was actually a jehovah

 

[VetA]

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Andrew.and the other apostles except Judas, he was Catholic

(Edited) i know he was catholic, but other readers know how you are trying to insult us [catholics]