Was the assassination attempt like that in Valkyrie morally justifiable?

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Originally Posted by thistle forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
I think at the very least it would have been prolonged and more people killed.

Assassination would make Hitler look like a martyr, an object of sympathy to his followers,.
:rotfl: My dear sister in Christ, You need to do a reality check .

To believe tha the assination of Hitler would have prolonged the war or made him a martyr are preposterous claims for which there is absolutely no basis whatsoever.
 
Based on what? There is absolutely nothing to indicate that.

The actual fact is, as soon as Hitler died (by his own choice), there was a total surrender.
There was a “formal surrender”, however there was not a “total surrender”. I recently saw a program on the History Channel regarding the period after the end of WWII…and many Germans still fought against the Allies… the Werewolf groups of guerrilla fighters carried on for three years killing Allies and Germans as well.

I lived in Germany for 7 years, and I learned a lot from the German people… and there were people there who were not aware of what went on until after the end of the war. Even Rommel did not know or believe that Hitler was killing off the Jews in concentration camps.

The assassination attempt on Hitler was a valid move on the part of German Patriots to stop a madman… I believe that had the attempt succeeded the war would have ended sooner, and many lives would not have been lost. Before you come to any conclusions regarding who and what was Nazi-ism and what would have happened, a very in depth study of their history coupled with reading William L. Shirer’s “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”… historyofwar.org/bookpage/shirer_third_reich.html should be undertaken to really understand what went on.
 
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Originally Posted by Ignatius forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Based on what? There is absolutely nothing to indicate that…

there was a “formal surrender”, however there was not a “total surrender”. .
That still doesn’t provide any basis for the contentions that killing Hitler would have prolonged the war or made him a martyr.

BTW, it was not a negotiated surrender, it was an unconditional surrender. An unconditional surrender doesn’t guarantee that absolutely no one will keep fighting, nothing can guarantee that; it means that the governmental authority surrenders unconditionally.
 
I’ve heard that the movie re-invents some history. Supposedly the people trying to kill Hitler didn’t really care about the Jews, they were trying to save their own skins realizing the war was lost - See, we killed Hitler for you, please don’t kill us! I don’t know if that’s true or not.

If, in fact, it would have been morally permissible to assassinate Hitler (I think it would have been), I do not believe that lesser measures would have to be tried first. That could have led him into deeper fortifications, more guards, etc. You have a plan to get him, you go and do it - hard and fast, no warning.

Can you tell I was an Army officer? 😃
 
I’ve heard that the movie re-invents some history. Supposedly the people trying to kill Hitler didn’t really care about the Jews, they were trying to save their own skins realizing the war was lost - See, we killed Hitler for you, please don’t kill us! I don’t know if that’s true or not.
I’ve not seen the movie, so I don’t know if what you describe is meant to be from the movie, or from actual history. In actual history it was not a “skin-saving” attempt, at least not by most of the major players such as von Stauffenberg, who is quoted as having cited the Catholic principle of Natural Law in committing treason against the authorities he’d made oaths to.

His reasoning, which follows Catholic principles, was that all worldly authority is from God, and therefore only if one is in line with God can one wield wordly authority. Since the Nazis were guilty of murdering millions of innocents, their worldly authority was null and void and any oaths made to them and their government were likewise null and void. In short, he couldn’t be a criminal since he was actually resisting criminals and not a legitimate government, and these people were criminals because of their genocidal campaign and the execution of civilians.

Peace and God bless!
 
His reasoning, which follows Catholic principles, was that all worldly authority is from God, and therefore only if one is in line with God can one wield wordly authority.
Hmmm… That would eliminate the majority of national leaders! At what point do you draw the line?
 
Hitler was militarily incompetent. His military leaders would have been glad to see him dead. However with him out of the way who knows how the war would have ended. I think at the very least it would have been prolonged and more people killed.
Agreed. There were more rational and therefore more dangerous men that could have succeeded Hitler, if he had died. Heinrich Himmler, the head of the Schutzstaffel, ie. the elite corp of Nazi hardliners who were largely in charge of the concentration camps and the “racial purity” programs, was next in line to succeed as Fuehrer of the Reich, if Hitler had been killed, and since Himmler was a lot more calculating and rational, he’d probably have been able to clean up the mess that Hitler had made of the military… And no doubt, that Thousand-Year Reich would have become a grim reality…
 
Agreed. There were more rational and therefore more dangerous men that could have succeeded Hitler, if he had died. Heinrich Himmler, the head of the Schutzstaffel, ie. the elite corp of Nazi hardliners who were largely in charge of the concentration camps and the “racial purity” programs, was next in line to succeed as Fuehrer of the Reich, if Hitler had been killed, and since Himmler was a lot more calculating and rational, he’d probably have been able to clean up the mess that Hitler had made of the military… And no doubt, that Thousand-Year Reich would have become a grim reality…
That’s why there was the Valkyrie Protocol in place, in this particular case. Himmler wouldn’t have had the opportunity to rise to power; the military was to immediately arrest all senior Nazi leadership and outlaw the Nazi Party. They had the means to do so (the Nazi Party likely couldn’t have resisted a fully mobilized German Army, and it was part of the Valkyrie Protocol, approved by Hitler, that the SS would be disolved into the larger army and fall under military command). The plan fell apart, in large part due to Hitler surviving (the rumors of his survival made most of the Generals hesistate in implementing Operation Valkyrie), and it never got past the first stages.

In fact, Goebbels was approached for arrest under the protocols of Valkyrie, but he phoned Hitler and put the arresting officers on the line to prove he was still alive, shutting that move down hard. 😦

cam100:
Hmmm… That would eliminate the majority of national leaders! At what point do you draw the line?
As far as armed resistance goes, the line is drawn by the points I highlighted from the Catechism above. As for other forms of resistance, the Church does support non-violent resistance to illegitimate authorities and laws; for example I would not be considered wrong for resisting an order to hand out contraception. Such an order by the government would be illegal, since it transgresses Natural Law, even if the other aspects of the government (like collecting taxes to pay for road repairs) remained legitimate.

In the case of the Nazi leadership, the very ideology of the Nazi Party removed all legitimacy from its government, because its ideology touched all aspects of its laws and reason for being. It wasn’t just a matter of illegitimate policies, but of a totally corrupt and evil governmental entity forcing itself on the people. All peaceful resistance to such a force would be legitimate (if imprudent), but armed resistance would only be legitimate if the above qualifications were met (and it’s my contention that they were, at least in the case of the Valkyrie coup).

Peace and God bless!
 
That still doesn’t provide any basis for the contentions that killing Hitler would have prolonged the war or made him a martyr.
I wasn’t trying to make any point other than the fact that after the surrender…others kept fighting.

Personally, I am strongly of the belief that the war would have ended far sooner had Hitler been assassinated. Many of the German Generals ha become well aware of the fact that things were not turning out as Hitler thought they would.
BTW, it was not a negotiated surrender, it was an unconditional surrender. An unconditional surrender doesn’t guarantee that absolutely no one will keep fighting, nothing can guarantee that; it means that the governmental authority surrenders unconditionally.
Yes, I know. The “government” surrenders and acknowledges that it ceases to exist, and orders its military to cease function, but it does not ultimately govern the actions of separate individuals.
 
After watching the movie Valkyrie, in which the Catholic Colonel Stauffenberg attempted to assassinate Hitler, I began thinking about the morality of such actions. Do you think this assassination attempt was morally justifiable? Does anyone know of any authoritative Catholic resources on this subject?
Imagine. All the lives that would have been saved. All it would have taken is one brave person with a gun willing to go to hell for a heavenly cause.
 
We as Catholics have the duty to examine all possibilities in fighting evil. Could Hitler have been stopped short of assassination? Historians doubt this. The taking of a human life is never desirable, but in some cases it may be justified in order to protect society. This I believe is the teaching of the Church on capital punishment.

What about the others in the room at the time of the explosion? Was taking their lives (their own innocence or culpability cannot be known) justified? Another hard consideration to ponder. Could another means i.e. poison, sniper, etc… have been used in order to minimize the loss of life? We can only surmise that Col Stauffenberg either exhausted all possibilities, or followed the logic that an an explosive device could solve any problem (I am not sure of the exact words that were used in the movie.). In any event, he followed his (supposedly well-formed) conscience. To go against your conscience is a sin right?
It takes far more courage to act when the choices for action are repugnant, than to take no action and deny all responsibility for what happens. To make no decision at all is not to avoid responsibility; it is to endorse whatever decision is reached by others. It is meaningless to oppose a plan, however onerous the plan may be, if you offer no substitute course of action. Sticking your head in the sand does not absolve you from responsibility for what happens around you. Doing nothing is no solution to a moral dilemma but merely avoidance of a solution.

Christians are, therefore, faced with a dilemma: when assaulted by evil, they must oppose it through direct action. They have no other option. Any failure to act is simply to condone evil.
  • *Ethics... Dietrich Bonhoeffer
 
Excellent Question. In An Imperfect World, Yes The Attempt Of Valkyrie Can Be Justified. Consider The Concept That Hitler Could Be An Avenue Of Satan. Why Would One Not Kill Satan? The Qualms Of The Church On This Issue Rests With The Fact The Church Believes Every Human Is Fully Redeemable & Can Be Rehabilitated. I Disagree. Man Cannot Rehabilitate Evil. Only God Can. Unfortunately With The Holocaust There Was No God Miracle Intervention. William Styron Quoted In His Book Sophies Choice: Where Was God? The Answer: Where Was Man? Mankind Allowed It Happen. It Continues To This Day In Darfur. Not Even George Born-again Bush Had Any Interest In Dafur. At Least Clinton Did Something About Kosovo & Yugoslavia. The Idealistic Position Of The Church In Hindsight Would Have Been To Capture Hitler, Convict Him, & Give Him Life In Prison. Believe It Or Not The Church Will Support The Death Penalty In Very Rare Cases But It Is So Rare That For All Practicable Purposes It Does Not Support That View Anymore. An Old-age Hitler Would Have Been Released By Now For Health Reasons. Know That The Death Penalty Still Lies On The Books In The Vatican State. Certainly A Covert Operation Is More Appealing To Us Than An All-out War. Its Somewhat More Defensible Given That Mankind Has Never Stopped Evil.
 
Perhaps Georg Elser was really the most principled of Hitler’s would-be assassins. His aim (November 1939) was just to stop the war.
 
I don’t think it was justifable. Certainly it would seem justifible because Hitler was evil, but you cannot fight evil with evil, nor do evil to bring a greater good. And prayer is the greatest weapon in the world - even greater than a bomb.
Bombs work immediately, and only do a little damage. Prayer takes longer, and does more damage. 40 days for life has closed more abortuaries than every bomb ever used against them.
 
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