Was the Bible Really off Limits to Our Ancestors?

[vern_humphrey]

An English writer, Wycliffe, did the same thing in the middle ages, maybe around 1500(?), distorting his translations to blast the Catholic priesthood and papacy. He was later executed, but by the Anglican King of England, Henry the (6th or 8th(?)).
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The Wycliffe Bible was earlier than that – mid 14th Century. John Wycliffe was an older contemporary of Geoffry Chaucer (who wrote Canterbury Tales.)

Wycliffe wrote at the dawn of English as we know it – a generation earlier, he would have had to write in Anglo-Saxon or Norman French to produce a “vernacular” translation. He included many radical ideas in his translation.

The 14th Century was the plague century, and after the plague, there was much peasant unrest. The peasants (whose numbers had been cut by at least a third by the plague) were expected to do as much work and deliver as much produce as before. They were denied access to the courts and rebelled (The Peasant Rebellion of 1382.) Many of the leaders of the rebellion were Anglo-Saxon priests (John Ball, Jack Straw, etc.) They and their followers used the Wycliffe Bible as their justification.

After the rebellion was put down, the Wycliffe Bible was forbidden – by the government, not the Church – and any English translation was considered suspect.

 

[callalily]

I’m learning so much from the continued replies. Thanks, again, to everyone. I’ll use some facts from the replies to compile a short response to my co-worker’s misunderstanding of history. Please remember us in your prayers!

 

[NotWorthy]

I’m learning so much from the continued replies. Thanks, again, to everyone. I’ll use some facts from the replies to compile a short response to my co-worker’s misunderstanding of history. Please remember us in your prayers!

I’ll give you 10:1 odds that they just shrug their shoulders and bring up some evil deed by the Catholic Church.

Something like:
“Well, be that as it may, how do you explain killing 95 million people in the Inquisition?”

 

[I_Leatherman]

Our friend, Henry Graham, who wrote “Where we got the Bible - Our debt to the Catholic Church” claims that it was also deerskins.

To the OP, I would highly suggest reading his book. I think you can find it free, online, at certain sites. It’s a great, quick, read.

And the Irish Book of Kells, and others, used vellum - calfskin.

 

[Mystophilus]

An English writer, Wycliffe, did the same thing in the middle ages, maybe around 1500(?), distorting his translations to blast the Catholic priesthood and papacy. He was later executed, but by the Anglican King of England, Henry the (6th or 8th(?)).

Wycliffe died, aged 64, of natural causes, in the reign of Richard II. You might be thinking of Henry IV, who, in 1401, signed the edict against Wycliffe’s Bible, which resulted in the burning of two dissenters.

So, no, the Catholic Church rather than preventing people from reading the Bible, lovingly preserved the Bible. No other organization can be credited with preserving the Bible for the ages for 1100 years until our Separated Brethren came along.

The Catholic Church did preserve the Bible, but there is another organisation which has been doing it since the C1st: the Orthodox Church.

 

[Trento]

The Pope in Rome wouldn’t allow the people to read the Bible, the manuscripts were kept locked away in the monasteries. This was in order to keep the people in ignorance and that way they could be controlled. Just as with the black slaves, who were not permitted to learn to read and write, but were to be kept in ignorance so they would be easy to control.

…Thanks!

St. John Chrysostom (344/354 -407 AD)
Doctor of the Church.
“To become adult Christians you must learn familiarity with the scriptures”
[On the Letter to the Ephesians - Education of Children.]

**“But what is the answer to these charges? ‘I am not,’ you will say, ‘one of the monks, but I have both a wife and children, and the care of a household.’ This is what has ruined everything, your thinking that the reading of scripture is for monks only, when you need it more than they do. Those who are placed in the world, and who receive wounds every day have the most need of medicine. So, far worse even than not reading the scriptures is the idea that they are superfluous. Such things were invented by the devil.” **
[St. John’s Second Homily on Matthew section 10 (which is sometimes labeled as section 5.) ]

**Pope St. Gregory I **(died 604 AD)
**“The Emperor of heaven, the Lord of men and of angels, has sent you His epistles for your life’s advantage—and yet you neglect to read them eagerly. Study them, I beg you, and meditate daily on the words of your Creator. Learn the heart of God in the words of God, that you may sigh more eagerly for things eternal, that your soul may be kindled with greater longings for heavenly joys.” **
[Letters, 5, 46. (EnchBibl 31)]

St. Bonaventure (1221-1274 AD)
In his day, there where no public schools and only the wealthy could afford private tutors. Therefore, most people could not read or write. St. Bonaventure had composed a copy of “Biblia Pauperum” which means the “Bible of the poor.” It contained a collection of pictures illustrating the important events of the Old Testament. It also contained parallel scenes in the New Testament and it showed how the Old Testament prefigured and was fulfilled in the Life and Teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. This helped the people to learn God’s Word by showing them the important stories of both the Old and New Testament. He was canonized a Saint by Pope Sixtus IV in1482 AD. He was declared a Doctor of the Church by Pope Sixtus V in 1588 AD.

Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903 AD)
“The solicitude of the apostolic office naturally urges and even compels us…to desire that this grand source of Catholic revelation (the Bible) should be made safely and abundantly accessible to the flock of Jesus Christ”
“…For sacred Scripture is not like other books. Dictated by the Holy Ghost, it contains things of the deepest importance, which in many instances are most difficult and obscure. To understand and explain such things there is always required the ‘coming’ of the same Holy Ghost; that is to say, His light and His grace…It is absolutely wrong and forbidden either to narrow inspiration to certain parts only of holy Scripture or to admit that the sacred writer has erred… and so far is it from being possible that any error can co-exist with inspiration, that inspiration is not only essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true.”
[Providentissimus Deus ( Nov. 18, 1893)]
He also encouraged the reading of Holy Scripture by granting an indulgence to those who read it for at least 25 minutes.

Pope St. Pius X (1903-1914 AD)
“Nothing would please us more than to see our beloved children form the habit of reading the Gospels - not merely from time to time, but every day.”

Pope Benedict XV (1914-1922 AD)
He repeated St. Jerome’s statement:
“Ignorance of Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.”
He expressed his desire that, **“… all the children of the Church, especially clerics, to reverence the Holy Scriptures, to read it piously and meditate on it constantly.” **He reminded them that, “…in these pages is to be sought that food, by which the spiritual life is nourished unto perfection…”

 

[Trento]

Pope Pius XII 1943 AD
“Our predecessors, when the opportunity occurred, recommended the study or preaching or in fine the pious reading and meditation of the sacred Scriptures.
“…This author of salvation, Christ, will men more fully know, more ardently love and more faithfully imitate in proportion as they are more assiduously urged to know and meditate the Sacred Letters, especially the New Testament…”
[Divino Afflante Spiritu]
He also granted indulgences (a blessing of God’s grace) to those who read Scripture. (1 Cor. 4:1.)

**HISTORY of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH Phillip Schoff Protestant Historical Scholar

CHAPTER VI. Schoff

Fortunately, the weakness of the empire and the want of centralization prevented the execution of the prohibition of Protestant books, except in strictly papal countries, as Bavaria and Austria. But unfortunately, the Protestants themselves, who used the utmost freedom of the press against the Papists, denied it to each other; the Lutherans to the Reformed, and both to the Anabaptists, Schwenkfeldians and Socinians.756 Protestant princes liked to control the press to protect themselves against popery, or the charges of robbery of church property and other attacks. The Elector John Frederick was as narrow and intolerant as Duke George on the opposite side.**
Obviously, the Church preferred that Catholics read bibles which reflected the orthodox Catholic interpretation of the Word of God. The misuse of the Gospel against the Church established by Christ himself is as Pope Leo XII noted nothing less than satanic. Interpretation of Church history or tradition, is as cloudy as the Protestants understanding of the Scriptures.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Wycliffe died, aged 64, of natural causes, in the reign of Richard II. You might be thinking of Henry IV, who, in 1401, signed the edict against Wycliffe’s Bible, which resulted in the burning of two dissenters.

Wycliffe died, but his Bible translation did not. As I said, it formed a rationalle for the Peasant Rebellion, and for more than a generation afterwards, there were political movements in England that used the Wycliffe, eventually emerging as Lolardry. Lolardry is best explained by a jingle the Lolards used to recite, “When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then a gentleman?”

This was a direct attack on the concept of social class and a threat to the whole order in England. That’s why Henry sined the edict.

 

[callalily]

Hello…I’m back again and with another question on this same topic: How do we know it took nearly a year for the monks to write out a full Bible? Wouldn’t it have taken a much longer time, considering these were the Old and New Testaments? My friend is not convinced that they could complete an entire Bible in such a small amount of time. Admittedly, it does seem like a rather short time frame to produce an entire Bible.
Were they able to compile them so quickly because it was a collective/shared task among many monks? Is there any documention regarding time frame? That would be such a help!

Thank you!

 

[jmcrae]

A lot of them were just Books of the Gospels - I actually tried that, once (copying the Gospels out by hand) and it actually doesn’t take all that long - I spent two hours a day (monks would have probably spent 8-10 hours a day) for about a month and a half - not bad at all, really.

I was using Cuniform script. I lost it the last time we moved, though.

It makes sense to me that they could have done the Bible in a year, though, based on that - assuming they weren’t doing anything else.

 

[irishmac]

Well, Callalily, I don’t think it’s possible to know the duration it took the monks to handwrite a Bible. But I propose an experiment. Ask your collegue to quit her job, move into a drafty, old wine cellar, and have her hand write the Bible on deerskins, or vellum, using ink and quill. Remind her that she is also responsible for the artwork and detail. Also, no modern ammenities. Just eat, sleep, translate, and write. Tell us when she comes out.

Now, doesn’t that sound like a scientific experiment to ascertain how long it took to handwrite a Bible. I think she’ll jump at the chance.:yup:

 

[mercygate]

Well, Callalily, I don’t think it’s possible to know the duration it took the monks to handwrite a Bible. But I propose an experiment. Ask your collegue to quit her job, move into a drafty, old wine cellar, and have her hand write the Bible on deerskins, or vellum, using ink and quill. Remind her that she is also responsible for the artwork and detail. Also, no modern ammenities. Just eat, sleep, translate, and write. Tell us when she comes out.

Now, doesn’t that sound like a scientific experiment to ascertain how long it took to handwrite a Bible. I think she’ll jump at the chance.:yup:

No cellar. Well lit room with southern exposure. No electric lights. So she can only work during natural daylight. And she does not have to translate nor does she have to do the artwork. As the pages to be decorated are completed, she can hand them to the artist assigned to complete the illuminations.

 

[irishmac]

And every so often, we’ll have a barbarian horde rampage through, or a plague or famine ravage the land. That’ll be fun :yup:

 

[I_Leatherman]

…and you’ll have to re-cut your quill pen every few minutes…and spend all your spare time chasing swans or geese or whatever…

 

[NotWorthy]

OK, back to the point.

In Henry Graham’s book, “Where we Got the Bible, Our Debt to the Catholic Church”, he details how the monks would spend all their waking hours copying the Bible. It would get to where the average person could do it in 8 months. Remember, when one thing is all you do, you tend to get rather proficient at it.

 

[Tarwater]

Sounds like the makings of a good reality show if you ask me.

 

[Zooey]

OK, back to the point.

In Henry Graham’s book, “Where we Got the Bible, Our Debt to the Catholic Church”, he details how the monks would spend all their waking hours copying the Bible. It would get to where the average person could do it in 8 months. Remember, when one thing is all you do, you tend to get rather proficient at it.

Something struck me, too, as I read this: We look at old manuscripts, & think “look at the handwriting!”…Well, the illuminations were something, for sure; but, as far as the writing goes…Isn’t that the hand they were taught?

I went to school ( long ago in a kingdom far away) in an age where the thinking of the time was, “Teaching children to write properly will stifle their creativity”, so we all graduated from high school with lousy handwriting.
My grandmother, on the other hand, had been trained in that exquisite Spencerian Hand of the Victorian Age, & is a better comparison: A Bible handwritten by her, would be beautifully done, & extremely readable.
In the same way, you can be sure that the monks were taught to write neatly & well before they were turned loose on the Scriptures! They were no doubt moving along a t a pretty steady rate…Those timings sound very reasonable to me, as a result…

 

[mercygate]

…and you’ll have to re-cut your quill pen every few minutes…and spend all your spare time chasing swans or geese or whatever…

Nah. The scribes didn’t have to do that. Running after the geese was a job for the novices. And don’t forget the flock of sheep you had to keep for the skins to make the parchment.

BTW, a member of these forums is a fine calligrapher who actually does keep his own geese for the quills.

 

[callalily]

I thank you for your replies. Although I started to read the book, Where We Got the Bible, I got busy and put it down. I received a response from her sooner than I had anticipated, and that’s why I came here seeking a quick answer. Your’s have helped a great deal. Given me a lot of insight and make a lot of sense. I will be grateful for direction to any other sources, too.
God bless you guys for all of the help!

 

[Crumpy]

I’m not sure if it’s already been said here.

The Catholic Church, like any Christian denomination, values its own teaching on scripture. The CC calls that ‘tradition’ and values it very highly.

You can hear it today, when EWTN broadcasts the meetings of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (NCCB), that bishops are concerned about people understanding scripture correctly.

The same is true for protestants who refer to this as “rightly dividing the word of God.”

As more time goes by and more heresies crop up or re-emerge, the same concerns are voiced. And, they should be.

The protestant reformation was schizophrenic. It’s basic tenet is that the pope and catholic church had no authority to interpret scripture, yet it claimed that authority to itself, while asserting even more bizarrely that scripture interpreted itself with no other authority. And, in so doing, it had to deny scripture itself which asserts:

I Tim 3:15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

The church is “big” no matter what the protestants (lower case ‘p’ is intentional) say. That’s what my Bible says, and that’s what my Church has always taught. Protestants can be commended for being so very faithful to the Bible, but, they don’t have it quite right, and they keep creating divisions among themselves for that very reason.