Was the command to not make statues a temporal one?

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“You **shall not make **for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them” (Ex. 20:4–5);

“And you shall make two cherubim of gold *; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be” (Ex. 25:18–20).

David gave Solomon the plan “for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan” (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was “by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all,” included statues of angels.

Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, “On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim.”

God told Moses to “make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live” (Num. 21:8–9).

Having seen these different verses, I think that God’s commandment to not make statues (in Exodus 20) was a temporal one. The very fact that God explicitly commands the making of statues (as seen in the other verses) indicates that there’s nothing evil about the statues themselves. However, at the time of Exodus 20, the Israelites who had just come out from Egypt, must have been so obsessed with the Egyptian idols that they must have had a tendency to worship any kind of statue that they would see. We see this in 2 Kgs. 18:4 where they end up worshipping the image which God had asked Moses to make.

As Christians, we have never had a tendency to worship statues. So it’s ok for us to make religious statues to keep them in the church, just as it was done in the Old Testament times.

What do you think?*
 
The commandment was to not make statues and bow down and WORSHIP them. The commandment is not about making statues or even bowing. So, no it isn’t a temporal one.
 
The commandment was to not make statues and bow down and WORSHIP them. The commandment is not about making statues or even bowing. So, no it isn’t a temporal one.
Is there any commentary on this by the church fathers?

I think Exodus 20 says that statues should not be made at all.
 
Is there any commentary on this by the church fathers?

I think Exodus 20 says that statues should not be made at all.
Would you pick up a copy of your favorite fictional book and read one sentence and decide that you know the meaning of the book? Of course, not, you have to read the entire novel and take the sentence in context with the whole book.

You are accidentally reading the Bible in way that makes it contradict itself by taking verses out of context of the entire text.

God was talking about worshiping statues and wasn’t against the statues themselves.

He told Moses to fashion a snake on a staff. It would be strange for God to give the commandments to Moses and then turn around and suddenly change his mind.
 
You are accidentally reading the Bible in way that makes it contradict itself by taking verses out of context of the entire text.

God was talking about worshiping statues and wasn’t against the statues themselves.
Ok.
 
I have pointed out to them all of those things and they just say, “It’s okay if God tells you to make an idol but you can’t do it on your own”.
When they come up with a statement like that you know you are not dealing with a rational person.
 
I have pointed out to them all of those things and they just say, “It’s okay if God tells you to make an idol but you can’t do it on your own”.
When they come up with a statement like that you know you are not dealing with a rational person.
Actually, that response would be perfectly rational in and of itself as far as I can see. It satisfies all the problems. However all of common sense, the Church’s Magisterium, and Holy Tradition tell us which is the correct understanding of this scriptural problem, i.e., the contextual understanding as already mentioned here. You can sculpt statues without problem, just don’t worship them.
 
Did the pagan tribes around the Jews actually commit this? I mean I know they made statues of the gods and goddess they worshipped, but did they actually bow down to those dieties?
 
Actually, that response would be perfectly rational in and of itself as far as I can see. It satisfies all the problems. However all of common sense, the Church’s Magisterium, and Holy Tradition tell us which is the correct understanding of this scriptural problem, i.e., the contextual understanding as already mentioned here. You can sculpt statues without problem, just don’t worship them.
To me it sounds like a weak argument, like someone grasping onto whatever they can.
 
I have pointed out to them all of those things and they just say, “It’s okay if God tells you to make an idol but you can’t do it on your own”.
Lol! 😃

In any case, the Catholic Church’s voice is God’s voice 👍, so even the above argument won’t cause problems. 🙂
 
“You **shall not make **for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them” (Ex. 20:4–5);

“And you shall make two cherubim of gold *; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be” (Ex. 25:18–20).

David gave Solomon the plan “for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan” (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was “by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all,” included statues of angels.

Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, “On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim*.”

God told Moses to “make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live” (Num. 21:8–9).

Having seen these different verses, I think that God’s commandment to not make statues (in Exodus 20) was a temporal one. The very fact that God explicitly commands the making of statues (as seen in the other verses) indicates that there’s nothing evil about the statues themselves. However, at the time of Exodus 20, the Israelites who had just come out from Egypt, must have been so obsessed with the Egyptian idols that they must have had a tendency to worship any kind of statue that they would see. We see this in 2 Kgs. 18:4 where they end up worshipping the image which God had asked Moses to make.

As Christians, we have never had a tendency to worship statues. So it’s ok for us to make religious statues to keep them in the church, just as it was done in the Old Testament times.

What do you think?

catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0603btb.asp
 
The commandment was to not make statues and bow down and WORSHIP them. The commandment is not about making statues or even bowing. So, no it isn’t a temporal one.
LOL

This** simple truth **seems so difficult for Protestants that I wonder if God is blinding them to the truth of it.
 
God was talking about worshiping statues and wasn’t against the statues themselves.

He told Moses to fashion a snake on a staff. It would be strange for God to give the commandments to Moses and then turn around and suddenly change his mind.
The commandment was to not make statues and bow down and WORSHIP them. The commandment is not about making statues or even bowing. So, no it isn’t a temporal one.
Having seen these different verses, I think that God’s commandment to not make statues (in Exodus 20) was a temporal one. The very fact that God explicitly commands the making of statues (as seen in the other verses) indicates that there’s nothing evil about the statues themselves. However, at the time of Exodus 20, the Israelites who had just come out from Egypt, must have been so obsessed with the Egyptian idols that they must have had a tendency to worship any kind of statue that they would see. We see this in 2 Kgs. 18:4 where they end up worshipping the image which God had asked Moses to make.
QUOTE]

It is more precisely about not making statues and proclaiming them to be deities. Consider this meditation on the issue from Isaiah 44:
Thus says the LORD, Israel’s King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; there is no God but me. Who is like me? Let him stand up and speak, make it evident, and confront me with it. Who of old announced future events? Let them foretell to us the things to come. Fear not, be not troubled: did I not announce and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses! Is there a God or any Rock besides me?
I would not at all go that far. I think the tendency to fall into idolatry is deeply ingrained, and whether we make idols of “things” like power, fame or fortune," or slip into the error of superstition, or in fact attribute power to icons, statues and images instead of to the God they point us toward, it is a sin that is as much a threat to Christians as it was to the Israelites. We must be on guard, and we must catechize well.
 
LOL

This** simple truth **seems so difficult for Protestants that I wonder if God is blinding them to the truth of it.
It is a bit like when I tell my sons, “Don’t let your eat with us and dirty a plates and make me pick it up after them” I am not telling my sons that their friends can not eat with us, only that they can’t do so and leave their dirty plates out for me to pick up.

If you took any of my statement out of context it would sound as if my sons aren’t allowed to have friends eat with us or do anything to make a plate dirty.:eek: What I really meant was that if those friends come over and eat, that they clean up after themselves.
 
And of course writing is an image of words, and words are an image of ideas. So if you can’t make any images, you can’t use words or writing. Or have optic nerves that make neural images in your brain, for that matter. 🙂

“On Holy Images” by St. John of Damascus (aka St John Damascene) made all these arguments long ago. Pretty good read.
 
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