Was the compromise of the catholic faith a compromise to much?

[johnridgway]

was the compromise of the catholic faith a compromise to much?

when the pope agreed to allow Anglican priests, married at that to become catholic priests,

quote
“and that does not mean that worshippers of the Ordinariate will be “mingled in” with Catholic congregations.”

“They will have a special service in their own right,” said Bishop McMahon.

so these so called priests will have there own Anglican / catholic services with there own doctrine.

does this mean that the catholic church is no longer catholic, by faith and by nature, but a new protestant / catholic mix.

in the name of uniting these churches, has the pope created a monster?

catholic should be catholic, no compromise, do you think the apostles would of compromised like this to the detrimental cost of faith and church.

 

[Paxvobis]

Ditto.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Absolutely.

This raises my eyebrows, as does the disrespect in the OP.

There have ALWAYS been individual and specialized cases of married priests, as when a married priest, and convert to Catholicism, can get permission to continue being a priest after conversion.

 

[Usagi]

Also, and even more importantly, there is no indication that the Ordinariate parishes will have “their own doctrine.” I’m pretty sure that part of the process involves the new Catholics signing on to “the full package” of teachings, so to speak, as well as modifications to any portion of the Anglican liturgy that expresses incorrect doctrine.

The new parishes will be allowed to retain their own centuries-old practices, but will not be Protestant or some kind of hybrid. They will be Catholics.

Usagi

 

[Melchior_1]

IMHO, the status of the Anglicans who convert en masse like this is strikingly similar to the Eastern Rites We don’t question them, we shouldn’t question these guys.

That’s one of the reasons I have so much respect for BXVI, the guy is just very smart and listens to the Holy Spirit. The solution for how to do with Anglican Churches who wanted to come over was right there, essentially the framework already in place, and he ran with it.

 

[eegardner]

In my Diocese I have a friend that is a married, former Episcopal priest that is now a Roman Catholic priest. I have seen him celebrate Mass. He is as much a Catholic priest as any priest that celebrates the Catholic Mass.

 

[JRKH]

Also, and even more importantly, there is no indication that the Ordinariate parishes will have “their own doctrine.” I’m pretty sure that part of the process involves the new Catholics signing on to “the full package” of teachings, so to speak, as well as modifications to any portion of the Anglican liturgy that expresses incorrect doctrine.

The new parishes will be allowed to retain their own centuries-old practices, but will not be Protestant or some kind of hybrid. They will be Catholics.

Usagi

Absolutely correct.
The fact is that those from the Anglican communion who come into the Church are doing so because they ALREADY accept everything the Church teaches. The Magisterium of the Church made provision to get past the last bits of “practice” and “discipline” that separated us.

As someone else already pointed out there are a number of other rites in the Catholic Church that have married priests. I will point out that these groups also have their own unique liturgical forms, devotions etc. that are perfectly acceptable to Rome for these are matters of practice and not doctrine.

Peace
James

 

[Garyjohn2]

does this mean that the catholic church is no longer catholic, by faith and by nature, but a new protestant / catholic mix.

Actually, catholic meaning “universal” or “throughout the world”, the church is more catholic than ever! Also, if this denomination was brought in to communion with Rome, they are no longer protestant (meaning protesting against Rome).

catholic should be catholic, no compromise, do you think the apostles would of compromised like this to the detrimental cost of faith and church.

I think the apostles did compromise by taking Saul/Paul into their fold, a former murderous treacherous enemy to the faith! And that did them much good.

 

[archangel04]

I was told Anglians don’t have a valid priesthood. They would need to be be ordained by a Catholic Bishop.

 

[manualman]

It’s poor form to call someone a ‘so-called priest’, but the fact is that Anglican priests are NOT considered to have received the sacrament of Holy Orders. When an Anglican priest converts to the catholic faith, he is not automatically a catholic priest. He must receive at least some additional formation and spiritual direction to confirm his vocation and then he is ordained. The process is accelerated due to the education he already has, but it isn’t a recognition of the Anglican ordination.

All that aside, I’m thrilled to hear about the ordinariate. I wonder how widespread it will become? Seems like critical mass could be a serious problem for them.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

JohnRidgeway, you OBVIOUSLY do not know ANYTHING about your own faith.

The former Anglican Priests, who are ordained as Catholic priests are CATHOLIC PRIESTS. They are NOT restricted to only serving in Anglo-Catholic parishes.

And I hate to inform you, but the Catholic Priests has had married Priests since the very beginning, has ALWAYS had married priests and WILL always have married priests.

Most of the Eastern Catholic Churches routinely ordain married men to the Diaconate and to the priesthood.

The Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church has also ALWAYS ordained married men to become priests. While this was the exception after 800, it has always been possible, and occasionally done.

Most of the time that this occurs is when a Minister of another faith converts to the Catholic Church. They are put through a Seminary program, ordained and have all of the rights and the privledges of any other Catholic Priest, but they also keep their wife and family.

If their spouse dies (as is true in the Eastern Catholic Churches), they are NOT allowed to remarry.

There has been no “Compromise” of our faith at all. Only people that do not understand the teachings of their faith would even think such a thing, much less actually say it.

Shame on you, and on all that think as you do. These are 100% legitimate, VALIDLY AND LEGITIMATELY ORDAINED PRIESTS in the Roman Catholic Church! How dare you, or anyone else, call their ordination into question.

What are YOUR theological bases for making a claim such as you have made? Please cite the specific Church laws, and the specific Church teachings that invalidate their ordinations, and that make the Pope who approves of their ordination, and the Bishops that actually ordain them apostates. That is what you are accusing the leadership of our church of being, making a charge such as you, JRKH and some others around here are doing.

Do you REALLY think that YOUR knowledge, and YOUR Judgement is superior to that of Pope Pius XII, Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul I, Blessed Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI?

Each and every one of those popes allowed married men to be Ordained as Priests in the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church (as did almost all Popes before them, but MY experience has only been with those Popes).

I met my first Latin Rite MARRIED Roman Catholic Priest in 1958. He was home, visiting his married children. He had been a Lutheran Minister for over 30 years, had converted in the late 1940’s, and was given a “quickie” Seminary program and ordained a priest in 1951. He was then sent to Germany, as it was felt that American Catholics would have a difficult time adjusting to “Father and Mrs. Jones”! (Not his real name.)

I am sick and tired of you “so called” Catholics substituting your IGNORANCE for the judgement of the Church. What you are promoting is nothing less than APOSTACY!

 

[PJM]

=johnridgway;8227527]was the compromise of the catholic faith a compromise to much?

when the pope agreed to allow Anglican priests, married at that to become catholic priests,

quote
“and that does not mean that worshippers of the Ordinariate will be “mingled in” with Catholic congregations.”

“They will have a special service in their own right,” said Bishop McMahon.

so these so called priests will have there own Anglican / catholic services with there own doctrine.

does this mean that the catholic church is no longer catholic, by faith and by nature, but a new protestant / catholic mix.

in the name of uniting these churches, has the pope created a monster?

catholic should be catholic, no compromise, do you think the apostles would of compromised like this to the detrimental cost of faith and church.

In my understanding; NO!

Married priest is NOT a Theological issue, it’s a church practice, supported by RECENT Tradition, founded on common sense of rules of service to others. [Two-masters].

I am unaware [and would be very interested in learning] if any of the agreement orver-rides any defined Doctrine or Dogma. I suspect not.

It would be wise and PRUDENT to withold these kinds of judgments until it is shown to actually be an ISSUE, beyond speculation.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[puzzleannie]

was the compromise of the catholic faith a compromise to much?

when the pope agreed to allow Anglican priests, married at that to become catholic priests,
.

there is no compromise whatever in Catholic law, belief, doctrine or practice in welcoming Anglicans who wish to return to full communion with the Catholic Church. None. Whoever says there is totally misunderstands the nature of the Church.

 

[johnridgway]

JohnRidgeway, you OBVIOUSLY do not know ANYTHING about your own faith.

The former Anglican Priests, who are ordained as Catholic priests are CATHOLIC PRIESTS. They are NOT restricted to only serving in Anglo-Catholic parishes.

And I hate to inform you, but the Catholic Priests has had married Priests since the very beginning, has ALWAYS had married priests and WILL always have married priests.

Most of the Eastern Catholic Churches routinely ordain married men to the Diaconate and to the priesthood.

The Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church has also ALWAYS ordained married men to become priests. While this was the exception after 800, it has always been possible, and occasionally done.

Most of the time that this occurs is when a Minister of another faith converts to the Catholic Church. They are put through a Seminary program, ordained and have all of the rights and the privledges of any other Catholic Priest, but they also keep their wife and family.

If their spouse dies (as is true in the Eastern Catholic Churches), they are NOT allowed to remarry.

There has been no “Compromise” of our faith at all. Only people that do not understand the teachings of their faith would even think such a thing, much less actually say it.

Shame on you, and on all that think as you do. These are 100% legitimate, VALIDLY AND LEGITIMATELY ORDAINED PRIESTS in the Roman Catholic Church! How dare you, or anyone else, call their ordination into question.

What are YOUR theological bases for making a claim such as you have made? Please cite the specific Church laws, and the specific Church teachings that invalidate their ordinations, and that make the Pope who approves of their ordination, and the Bishops that actually ordain them apostates. That is what you are accusing the leadership of our church of being, making a charge such as you, JRKH and some others around here are doing.

Do you REALLY think that YOUR knowledge, and YOUR Judgement is superior to that of Pope Pius XII, Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul I, Blessed Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI?

Each and every one of those popes allowed married men to be Ordained as Priests in the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church (as did almost all Popes before them, but MY experience has only been with those Popes).

I met my first Latin Rite MARRIED Roman Catholic Priest in 1958. He was home, visiting his married children. He had been a Lutheran Minister for over 30 years, had converted in the late 1940’s, and was given a “quickie” Seminary program and ordained a priest in 1951. He was then sent to Germany, as it was felt that American Catholics would have a difficult time adjusting to “Father and Mrs. Jones”! (Not his real name.)

I am sick and tired of you “so called” Catholics substituting your IGNORANCE for the judgement of the Church. What you are promoting is nothing less than APOSTACY!

The Old Medic you have shown yourself to be rude with your head stuck up your backside, in discussions you should never get personal. you should never tell anyone they don’t know there own faith and all answers and reply s should be polite and none critical, so don’t dare to call yourself Christian until you address your issues.

to the rest of you thanks for your comments.

I would like to point out that these so called priests that I mentioned had not yet been ordained into the catholic church, they was at the time still Anglican. so to a Catholics point of view they are not real priests.

When these people came in to the church, ordained as priests or deacons, they came in to the Latin rite church, not the eastern or any other rite, just the Latin rite. so that is why I brought up the subject of marriage, as from what I could find out there have been no married priests in the Latin rite.

The fact that we was told they would not mingle with Catholics, but have there own special services, and the fact that there services that they have had for 500 years would be allowed to cross over. raised a few eyebrows and objections.

you can not relate this to the eastern church, the eastern church was always catholic, and always has been, same as the orthodox church is catholic. the schism did not stop any of the rites from being catholic.

The Anglican church was never part of Catholicism, and never will be, there doctrines are completely against what Catholicism teaches.

So if they are allowed to keep there former traditions, then that would not be catholic.

if they have accepted the catholic way without exception, then I applaud them, they are very brave in what they have done.

Thanks for your comments, but I won’t accept personal attack, so please keep in mind that this is a Christian forum

 

[Melchior_1]

When these people came in to the church, ordained as priests or deacons, they came in to the Latin rite church, not the eastern or any other rite, just the Latin rite. so that is why I brought up the subject of marriage, as from what I could find out there have been no married priests in the Latin rite.

There are married Priests in the Latin Rite though. For years the Church has been understanding of ministers who convert yet are also married. Celibacy is a custom, not dogma, after all.

you can not relate this to the eastern church, the eastern church was always catholic, and always has been, same as the orthodox church is catholic. the schism did not stop any of the rites from being catholic.

Yes we can relate, because Anglicans used to be Catholics.

The Anglican church was never part of Catholicism, and never will be, there doctrines are completely against what Catholicism teaches.

It did used to be a part of the Church before they split off. All Protestants, one way or another, trace their roots back to Rome by the way. And for them to be Catholic, they had to change their doctrines to match ours, make minor changes to their liturgy, and swear obedience to Rome, just like the East did.

So if they are allowed to keep there former traditions, then that would not be catholic.

Again, no different than the East.

 

[InquisitorMax]

The Roman Catholic Church considers celibacy a higher estate. A convert, who has wife, may be ordained a priest.

A man who is a Roman Catholic and married may not become a priest.
A man who is a priest, either Roman, Eastern or Orthodox, may not marry.

Anglicanorum Coetibus is tribute to the generosity and cleverness of our current Pope. He has simultaneously thrown a lifeline to Anglicans heartbroken by the disorder in their church and done an end-run around the barren sub-culture of pseudo-ecumenism.

 

[Usagi]

Johnridgway,

The “traditions” that will be retained in the Ordinariate parishes are matters of practice and custom, not false doctrine.

As was mentioned earlier, any parish that chooses to become Catholic under the Ordinariate is likely to be made up of Anglicans who were already very nearly Catholic to begin with. Since the time of Cardinal Newman, there has been an “Anglo-Catholic” strain within the Anglican communion that has tried to recapture what they had given up of their Catholic “ancestry.” Being able to come over as a whole parish and retain many of their familiar practices may have been the last little bit of wheel-greasing that was necessary to get many of these parishes back home to Rome.

Usagi

 

[archangel04]

JohnRidgeway, you OBVIOUSLY do not know ANYTHING about your own faith.

The former Anglican Priests, who are ordained as Catholic priests are CATHOLIC PRIESTS. They are NOT restricted to only serving in Anglo-Catholic parishes.

And I hate to inform you, but the Catholic Priests has had married Priests since the very beginning, has ALWAYS had married priests and WILL always have married priests.

Most of the Eastern Catholic Churches routinely ordain married men to the Diaconate and to the priesthood.

The Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church has also ALWAYS ordained married men to become priests. While this was the exception after 800, it has always been possible, and occasionally done.

Most of the time that this occurs is when a Minister of another faith converts to the Catholic Church. They are put through a Seminary program, ordained and have all of the rights and the privledges of any other Catholic Priest, but they also keep their wife and family.

If their spouse dies (as is true in the Eastern Catholic Churches), they are NOT allowed to remarry.

There has been no “Compromise” of our faith at all. Only people that do not understand the teachings of their faith would even think such a thing, much less actually say it.

Shame on you, and on all that think as you do. These are 100% legitimate, VALIDLY AND LEGITIMATELY ORDAINED PRIESTS in the Roman Catholic Church! How dare you, or anyone else, call their ordination into question.

What are YOUR theological bases for making a claim such as you have made? Please cite the specific Church laws, and the specific Church teachings that invalidate their ordinations, and that make the Pope who approves of their ordination, and the Bishops that actually ordain them apostates. That is what you are accusing the leadership of our church of being, making a charge such as you, JRKH and some others around here are doing.

Do you REALLY think that YOUR knowledge, and YOUR Judgement is superior to that of Pope Pius XII, Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul I, Blessed Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI?

Each and every one of those popes allowed married men to be Ordained as Priests in the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church (as did almost all Popes before them, but MY experience has only been with those Popes).

I met my first Latin Rite MARRIED Roman Catholic Priest in 1958. He was home, visiting his married children. He had been a Lutheran Minister for over 30 years, had converted in the late 1940’s, and was given a “quickie” Seminary program and ordained a priest in 1951. He was then sent to Germany, as it was felt that American Catholics would have a difficult time adjusting to “Father and Mrs. Jones”! (Not his real name.)

I am sick and tired of you “so called” Catholics substituting your IGNORANCE for the judgement of the Church. What you are promoting is nothing less than APOSTACY!

Though I agree with your comments, even though you could have been more charitable, you have done the same thing to other. You have come on here many times to bait many people into arguing and you never come back to respond. You have disrespected many Catholics who pratice traditional practices many times. Do not judge because you are on the same boat.

 

[johnridgway]

The Roman Catholic Church considers celibacy a higher estate. A convert, who has wife, may be ordained a priest.

A man who is a Roman Catholic and married may not become a priest.
A man who is a priest, either Roman, Eastern or Orthodox, may not marry.

Anglicanorum Coetibus is tribute to the generosity and cleverness of our current Pope. He has simultaneously thrown a lifeline to Anglicans heartbroken by the disorder in their church and done an end-run around the barren sub-culture of pseudo-ecumenism.

Thanks for this, but it does sound very unfair,
A man who is a Roman Catholic and married may not become a priest.
A man who is a priest, either Roman, Eastern or Orthodox, may not marry.
yet a convert who is married can become a priest.

 

[Cat]

Thanks for this, but it does sound very unfair,
A man who is a Roman Catholic and married may not become a priest.
A man who is a priest, either Roman, Eastern or Orthodox, may not marry.
yet a convert who is married can become a priest.

It may seem unfair to us as human beings, but Holy Mother Church teaches it, and that means that it is of God, not men. Therefore we must be docile and accept this teaching wholeheartedly in order to be good Catholics and friends with the Lord Jesus.

God is the One who gives men the “calling” to the priesthood. It is not a “career ambition” or a “job.” If God has called a married Prostestant pastor to not only convert to Catholicism, but also to become a priest, we should honor that calling, as it is from God.

I sometimes think that many Protestant pastors would be called to the priesthood if they were only Catholic, but since they are Protestant, they hear the call of the Holy Spirit and assume that it is a call to the pastorate. So they become pastors. And because most Protestant denominations allow and in fact, encourage marriage, the pastor eventually gets married, too.

But when they become Catholics, they are able to enter into their REAL calling, which is the priesthood. We should rejoice, because we definitely could use more priests, and if ALL the Protestant pastors converted and became priests, Holy Mother Church would be greatly blessed!

Keep in mind that marriage is a sacrament, too. A priest who is married is not doing anything dishonoring to God by being married and having a family.