Was the messiah expected to be divine?

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Isaiah 7:14 “a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [God with us]”

Isaiah 9:6 “unto us a son is given…and his name shall be called wonderful, counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting father”

I’m wondering, in light of these passages, why did so many people think it was blasphemous to say that Jesus, the messiah, was divine? A lot of people still think it’s blasphemous. A lot of my Jewish friends have said, “The messiah is not God.” Why do they say this when the above quotes are in their scriptures, and if the above quotes are in the Old Testament, why did many people consider Jesus’ claim to divinity blasphemous?
 
I’ve always wondered that as well. It seems like everybody is so shocked that the Messiah was God. They all just expected another prophet it seems but, they were also unhappy with Jesus because they had built up their own expectation of who the Messiah would be (one who would come to rule and bring some sort of political peace among nations) they were let down because God’s way, again, wasn’t good enough for them.
 
He fulfilled all the prophecies about him. I don’t have references now but it states in scripture throughout “he did this so that the prophecy would be fulfilled”.
I don’t know what Jews think heaven is going to be but ask them how could we ever overcome original sin through a human being. Something greater than man must make reparation for our sins in order to be forgiven, but at the same time the sin was man’s, hence, the two natures of Christ.
 
The Incarnation made sense. He promised it almost explicitly at some times. I don’t get why so many of the Jews missed it.
 
From what I understand, Jesus was to give them the land of and honey so to speak.
They were awaiting more of a political leader.
That’s why so many Jews didn’t accept the nation of Israel carved out for them by man
in 1948.
Their messiah was to establish their nation and rule it.
 
fhkjds said:
Isaiah 7:14 “a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [God with us]”

Isaiah 9:6 “unto us a son is given…and his name shall be called wonderful, counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting father”

I’m wondering, in light of these passages, why did so many people think it was blasphemous to say that Jesus, the messiah, was divine? A lot of people still think it’s blasphemous. A lot of my Jewish friends have said, “The messiah is not God.” Why do they say this when the above quotes are in their scriptures, and if the above quotes are in the Old Testament, why did many people consider Jesus’ claim to divinity blasphemous?
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It is very interesting what you wrote. Even though the messiah was prophesised to come they did not expect Him to be God Himself. It was for good reason. Of all the ones who did not expect it was the devil. It did not dawn on him that this Jesus is the Son of God. We know from the Church Father St.John Chrysostom that this was the case. The devil had an idea that Jesus was the messiah but it did not dawn on him this person was God. Remember too that the devil attacked Jesus and quite openly. To destroy this messiah was his goal. But hidden in the messiah was the Son of God. God permitted Himself to be attacked so as to reveal or expose the evil one. By attacking a person so good as Jesus the devil revealed himself. But because this person Jesus was in fact God destroyed whatever the devil had planned. If you check out the Passion movie you can see these points more clearly. Why would Jesus make claims He is God? The devil moved in to put Jesus away and the whole affair backfired and brought a crushing defeat for the devil. You can see this at the end of the film when the devil goes into a terrible rage as Jesus is defeating him. Not many people knew Jesus was God in human flesh. His Mother knew as well as St.Joseph. St.Peter confessed it and Jesus gave him a special ministry that is entrusted to our Popes that are the successors of this great Apostle. Why people could not have thought it is probably their concept of God was He is one person. The Trinity was not thought of until Jesus revealed it. Yes there are many references to the Trinity in the OT but by and large the concept that we know of now of the Trinity was practically unknown then. Only a few knew of it in the OT. King David knew of this. The people though did not. Even though the devil knew of the Trinity he did not know that the messiah will be God. To encounter God would have been to his defeat so by attacking Jesus openly he must of thought of Jesus much like the rest. There are references where the evil spirits cry out that you are the messiah or you are the Son of God but you must understand that the evil spirits cannot stand to speak the truth. The evil spirits can only lie and they are not grounded in the Truth. So whatever they say can be interpreted as such. They lie, period! If they spoke the Truth it is only when God forces them too. But their language is lies and deceit. For Jesus testify about him when he said there is no truth in him. So when they say to Jesus you are the messiah, you are the Son of God they are actually lying. Why will they want to express the Truth? It will destroy them if they did so. But Jesus knew what He will do and by exposing Himself the way He did He expose the evil ones and exposed their evil. Now the people can recognize evil and follow the One who has defeated it. Now the people will see Jesus as He truly is. Both Human and Divine! God Bless!
 
Forget the Jews, there are way too many Catholics who do not believe in the Divinity of Christ.
 
Perhaps Christ was the “stumbling block”?

The individual views of the Messiah is probably diverse.
 
It’s funny my priest was jsut talking about this in his sermon at yeasterdays EF Mass. He talked about how the pharisees completly dropped the ball in recognizing the Messiah, due to their pride.
 
fhkjds said:
Isaiah 7:14 “a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [God with us]”

Isaiah 9:6 “unto us a son is given…and his name shall be called wonderful, counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting father”

I’m wondering, in light of these passages, why did so many people think it was blasphemous to say that Jesus, the messiah, was divine? A lot of people still think it’s blasphemous. A lot of my Jewish friends have said, “The messiah is not God.” Why do they say this when the above quotes are in their scriptures, and if the above quotes are in the Old Testament, why did many people consider Jesus’ claim to divinity blasphemous?
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This isnt even an argument. Jesus IS divine - not “Was” - the Trinity is Dogma. Dogma is revealed by GOD to man.

Anyone who doesnt accept Dogma isnt arguing with Catholics.

They are arguing with GOD himself.

Pax
 
Fundamentally, Judaism believes that God is the “Master of the Universe”, and the Creator of all time, space, energy, and matter.

The traditional Jewish Siddur states quite clearly that God is not “corporeal” – meaning, God does not have a human body. God, therefore, cannot be born or die, nor have a son.

Judaism generally teaches that it is heretical for any man to claim to be God, part of God, or the literal son of God. (Some Hasidic and mystical Kabbalistic Jews, however, take a contrary opinion, stating that even Moses and Jacob had Divine “aspects” of God.)

(Also, please keep in mind, there are several divisions and philosophies within Judaism, ranging from the ultra-Orthodox to the more progressive, sometimes with divergent and conflicting views.)

In short, to answer your question, the Jewish Messiah, according to traditional Judaism, was not expected to be Divine, but rather a human leader, descended from the Davidic line, who would rule and unite the people of Israel, rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, gather in the Jewish exiles, and usher in the Messianic age of universal peace.
 
GerardMajella said:
(Also, please keep in mind, there are several divisions and philosophies within Judaism, ranging from the ultra-Orthodox to the more progressive, sometimes with divergent and conflicting views.)
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This is just a quick little side note that always bothers me. When people describe religions as “progressive.” I have a Jewish friend who has on occasion gone to church with a christian friend and will tell me about how she really likes it, not that she believes in it, because it is a more “progressive” church. In reality though, it is REgressive because it is stepping further away from the truth and stepping further into sin. Although Judaism is no longer the true religion, it is still the Orthodox Jews that are the progressive ones because they stick closest to what was the truth even if they are still behind in not accepting Jesus.

😃
 
fhkjds said:
Isaiah 7:14 “a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [God with us]”

Isaiah 9:6 “unto us a son is given…and his name shall be called wonderful, counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting father”

I’m wondering, in light of these passages, why did so many people think it was blasphemous to say that Jesus, the messiah, was divine? A lot of people still think it’s blasphemous. A lot of my Jewish friends have said, “The messiah is not God.” Why do they say this when the above quotes are in their scriptures, and if the above quotes are in the Old Testament, why did many people consider Jesus’ claim to divinity blasphemous?
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I simply object to the false dichotomy presented here, not the ideas specifically.
There are numerous passages in the bible that a believer could view as showing divinity in Jesus. Not just these two passages.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I simply object to the false dichotomy presented here, not the ideas specifically.
There are numerous passages in the bible that a believer could view as showing divinity in Jesus. Not just these two passages.
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If one were to read The Holy Gospel according to St John Chapter One - then the Question is clearly answered.

Jesus is Divine.

I Cite the Holy Trinity , the Transfiguration , the Real Presence , the Propitiation of the Cross for which all Sin can be forgiven the Body of Christ and his Precious Blood.

The fact that JESUS is DIVINE is the very cornerstone of our Faith

It is for that reason that the Early Church Fathers all had to deal with numerous Heresies alll of which denied the Divinity of CHRIST and one by one they were universally rejected. Arianism , Nestorianism , the Monophysites - etc etc.

Jesus is Divine - GOD has revealed it to men and to deny this truth is to deny GOD himself who revealed it. All the POPES and Church Councils are guided by the Holy Ghost. GOD the Father Almighty revealed it at the Transfiguration - Jesus at the last Supper and the Holy Ghost ever since Pentecost on hundreds and hundreds of occasions.

How much proof does a person need.

Pax
 
it is still the Orthodox Jews that are the progressive ones because they stick closest to what was the truth even if they are still behind in not accepting Jesus.
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Agreed - I find the commonalities between Orthodox Judaism and traditional Catholicism to be fascinating. Most Orthodox Jews are very family-oriented, very religious, anti-abortion, exceptionally charitable, etc. Despite our differences theologically, we do have a lot in common.
 
GerardMajella said:
Agreed - I find the commonalities between Orthodox Judaism and traditional Catholicism to be fascinating. Most Orthodox Jews are very family-oriented, very religious, anti-abortion, exceptionally charitable, etc. Despite our differences theologically, we do have a lot in common.
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I was not aware of Judaism being pro life until recently. Thank you for starting yet another topic for me to spend hours upon hours of study on.:mad:
Just kidding!😉
 
Wesley7 said:
Perhaps Christ was the “stumbling block”?

The individual views of the Messiah is probably diverse.
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They were, depending on which camp you belonged to. Basically though the Messiah was thought to be someone of grandeur and power, either militarily or politically or both who would deliver the Jews from bondage and usher in the new kingdom of God. Israel would finally attain what God had promised them. There was very little speculation as to whether or not he would be divine. He was going to be the Son of God, although that term did not specifically mean that he was going to be or that they believed that he would be divine. A Son of God was a person who did Gods will on Earth. The very thought that someone like Jesus could be the Messiah was considered ludicrous by most.

Jesus measured up to what a few people thought the Messiah would be and was totally rejected by the overwhelming majority. There is a lot of speculation that is exactly why Judas aided the Romans in arresting Jesus. According to that theory Judas expected that Jesus would lead a revolt against the Romans and usher in the new era. When that did not happen, he acted to force Jesus’ hand.

One thing that we know for sure from reading not only Christian texts but Jewish sources from the time period is that no one expected that the Messiah would be crucified like a common criminal and die for the sins of the world. That wasn’t even a consideration and was never brought up. It wasn’t until Jesus said that was what was going to happen did anyone even think about it, and they were confined to a small group. Most of them probably did not believe it completely until the resurrection. Some had trouble with it even then In fact the death of Jesus proved to the majority of Jews that Jesus was not the Messiah. To them the thought of a crucified criminal being the Messiah was ridiculous That was the very reason that the overwhelming majority of early Christians, even in the first century were non Jews. The majority of Jews would not accept that Jesus was or even could be the Messiah.
 
The majority of Jews would not accept that Jesus was or even could be the Messiah.
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And they still, to this day, do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. Instead, Jesus is viewed in traditional Jewish circles as a false Messiah. Judaism has never accepted any of the claimed fulfilled prophecies attributed to Jesus by Christians.

According to Judaism, the Messiah’s task is to usher in the Messianic age – a single, one-time event – returning the exiled Jews to Israel, rebuilding the Temple, re-instituting the daily sacrificial offerings, reigning as King, and ushering in an era of universal peace.

Some rabbis, however, do take a positive view of Jesus, stating that Jesus paved the way for the future Messiah, and helped to spread the Ten Commandments and Noahide Laws to the Gentiles.
 
=fhkjds;6903262]Isaiah 7:14 “a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [God with us]”
Click to expand...
Isaiah 9:6 “unto us a son is given…and his name shall be called wonderful, counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting father”
Click to expand...
I’m wondering, in light of these passages, why did so many people think it was blasphemous to say that Jesus, the messiah, was divine? A lot of people still think it’s blasphemous. A lot of my Jewish friends have said, “The messiah is not God.” Why do they say this when the above quotes are in their scriptures, and if the above quotes are in the Old Testament, why did many people consider Jesus’ claim to divinity blasphemous?
Click to expand...
They came to there conclusions because thy were looking for a King Warrior savior of the Jewish nation much like king David did. BUT that was not what God promised or in accord with God’s Perfect Will. He came to save souls not land, not wealth, not power; Reedemer of souls!
 
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