Was the Protestant Reformation, in a sense, good?

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thephilosopher6 said:
Ok, yes there was bad that came out of the enlightenment. But there was also much good. Are we forgetting the philosophers such as John Locke, Immanuel Kant, G.W.F. Hegel?
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All of those men disseminated ideas contrary to the Catholic Faith. Locke and Kant were in the Index Librorum Prohibitorum
 
R_H_Benson said:
All of those men disseminated ideas contrary to the Catholic Faith. Locke and Kant were in the Index Librorum Prohibitorum
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Why would a book be prohibited?
Did you know that the bible was prohibited to be read here till just very recently –

GG
 
GodsGrace154 said:
Why would a book be prohibited?
Did you know that the bible was prohibited to be read here till just very recently –

GG
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To protect souls from exposure to dangerous ideas contrary to the truth of Jesus Christ.
 
Lenten_ashes said:
Yup, the same positive from said boldness is also a downside.

Sometimes Jesus is speaking to apostles and the things being said are meant for them and their successors, not everybody reading the bible in later centuries. John 20:21-23 for example

But as a SS practicing protestant, it’s very easy to come to the false conclusion that you are appointed by God to be so judgmental and straighten everyone else out. Basically they become little popes, if you will.

I saw this is a huge problem in protestant theology…no real hierarchy and the pastor has very limited authority himself. Someone’s feelings are always being hurt in protestant churches and the turnover is high because of it. Too many chiefs in the pews.

But I do like and admire the protestants knack for speaking out for Jesus and sharing the gospel. Some protestant minister i never met prayed for me one day and it was because of that I became Christian after being agnostic most of my life.
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I agree with your take on protestant theology. 👍
many protestants have big and loving hearts though and do try to live the Gospel as best they can with sola scriptura in mind.
Sometimes it must be hard to find the right church.
 
R_H_Benson said:
To protect souls from exposure to dangerous ideas contrary to the truth of Jesus Christ.
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I see. Okay.
I like to be free to read what I want to read.
But feel I have to be smart enough to know when I’m reading garbage.
The only way to do this is to be very familiar with the bible.

Since the bible is read now, here, bible study classes have been started. Maybe finally people will learn their faith (the Catholic faith).

Heresies are spread because people don’t know this “truth” we talk about much here on these threads. Last and not least - there are a lot of JW’s around here specifically because Catholics are easy game for them since it sounds like they know so much about the Word of God.

GG
 
clem456 said:
Where is here?
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A different country. It was prohibited even back in the 60’s!

Now it could be read but people aren’t interested anymore. They might have been back then, we’ll never know for sure.

People were happy knowing less. They went to Mass and confession and were happy. Today people desire to understand more. Although there are still the Mass/Confession ones who, I wonder if they even believe. Some will tell me they go to Mass out of tradition, but they don’t believe in an afterlife. I tell them you either believe what Jesus said or you think he’s a liar. Not in those exact words!

GG
 
GodsGrace154 said:
A different country. It was prohibited even back in the 60’s!

Now it could be read but people aren’t interested anymore. They might have been back then, we’ll never know for sure.

People were happy knowing less. They went to Mass and confession and were happy. Today people desire to understand more. Although there are still the Mass/Confession ones who, I wonder if they even believe. Some will tell me they go to Mass out of tradition, but they don’t believe in an afterlife. I tell them you either believe what Jesus said or you think he’s a liar. Not in those exact words!

GG
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I am finding your posts a little confusing and hard to follow. :confused:
 
7_Sorrows said:
I am finding your posts a little confusing and hard to follow. :confused:
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Just answering Clem456.

Nothing important.

If you want clarification, however, I’ll be happy to repeat if you ask a specific question.
Sorry about this.

GG
 
GodsGrace154 said:
A different country. It was prohibited even back in the 60’s!

Now it could be read but people aren’t interested anymore. They might have been back then, we’ll never know for sure.

People were happy knowing less. They went to Mass and confession and were happy. Today people desire to understand more. Although there are still the Mass/Confession ones who, I wonder if they even believe. Some will tell me they go to Mass out of tradition, but they don’t believe in an afterlife. I tell them you either believe what Jesus said or you think he’s a liar. Not in those exact words!

GG
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I am curious who was prohibiting the Bible. Was it the government? Or a church official? Or another person/group?
 
susanlo said:
I am curious who was prohibiting the Bible. Was it the government? Or a church official? Or another person/group?
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In Europe. The church. Not an official. Rome. I guess they thought the people here couldn’t handle it. In the 1960’s not everyone had finished high school yet. I could understand how the O.T. could be confusing - but what about the gospels?? Surely those are “safe” for everyone.

GG
 
Several positives came out of the Protestant Reformation. It created an interpretation of Christianity that embraced liberty. This led to the Catholic Church to embrace liberty. The Protestant churches were also less corrupt than the Catholic Church at the time. The Catholic Church fixed its problems because of the Reformation.
 
Joseph3 #53
Several positives came out of the Protestant Reformation. It created an interpretation of Christianity that embraced liberty. This led to the Catholic Church to embrace liberty.
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False.

How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and the Success of the West
RODNEY STARK
**“Through all prior recorded history, slavery was universal — Christianity began in a world where as much as half the population was in bondage. But by the seventh century, Christianity had become the only major world religion to formulate specific theological opposition to slavery, and, by no later than the 11th century, the Church had expelled the dreadful institution from Europe.” **[My emphasis].
catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/how-christianity-led-to-freedom-capitalism-and-the-success-of-the-west.html
The Protestant churches were also less corrupt than the Catholic Church at the time. The Catholic Church fixed its problems because of the Reformation.
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False. The Catholic Church has never been, and can never be, “corrupt”.

**The Protestant Reformation/ Indulgences
Question from Shane Brinegar on 11-06-2002: **
Many Protestant Theologians and Secular Historians say that the Church was corrupt during the time of the Reformation, and that it had fallen away from true Biblical Doctrines. They claim this is what lead Luther to Reform and his 95 theses. I have also read this in many church history books. Is the literature correct? Did Tetzel really preach, When the coin in the coffer rings the soul from purgatory springs. It sounds as though the church was using the sale of indulgences, as a way of taxation? Please Clarify. God Bless, Shane

**Answer by Fr. John Echert on 11-06-2002 (EWTN): **
No more true than for one who claims a few hundred years from now that during the time of the present sex scandal, the Church herself had fallen from her moral teaching on sexuality. Indulgences are a valid theological reality, and if in times past some abused the legitimate practice regarding these, that is a failure of members of the institutional aspect of the Church, not the Church herself, who remains always the spotless Bride of Christ. The analogy fits and is a reminder to Catholics to distinguish between the divinely appointed and guided Holy Church and the fallible human element within her. [My emphasis].
tinyurl.com/kg274px
 
Abu said:
False.

How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and the Success of the West
RODNEY STARK
**“Through all prior recorded history, slavery was universal — Christianity began in a world where as much as half the population was in bondage. But by the seventh century, Christianity had become the only major world religion to formulate specific theological opposition to slavery, and, by no later than the 11th century, the Church had expelled the dreadful institution from Europe.” **[My emphasis].
catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/how-christianity-led-to-freedom-capitalism-and-the-success-of-the-west.html

False. The Catholic Church has never been, and can never be, “corrupt”.

**The Protestant Reformation/ Indulgences
Question from Shane Brinegar on 11-06-2002: **
Many Protestant Theologians and Secular Historians say that the Church was corrupt during the time of the Reformation, and that it had fallen away from true Biblical Doctrines. They claim this is what lead Luther to Reform and his 95 theses. I have also read this in many church history books. Is the literature correct? Did Tetzel really preach, When the coin in the coffer rings the soul from purgatory springs. It sounds as though the church was using the sale of indulgences, as a way of taxation? Please Clarify. God Bless, Shane

**Answer by Fr. John Echert on 11-06-2002 (EWTN): **
No more true than for one who claims a few hundred years from now that during the time of the present sex scandal, the Church herself had fallen from her moral teaching on sexuality. Indulgences are a valid theological reality, and if in times past some abused the legitimate practice regarding these, that is a failure of members of the institutional aspect of the Church, not the Church herself, who remains always the spotless Bride of Christ. The analogy fits and is a reminder to Catholics to distinguish between the divinely appointed and guided Holy Church and the fallible human element within her. [My emphasis].
tinyurl.com/kg274px
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A large part of the Church was against liberty at the time of the Reformation. They wanted to suppress dissidents. Have you ever heard of Judge Claude Frollo? He was a fictional Catholic judge who was very corrupt during the 1400s. He did not follow Christ’s teachings.
 
Abu said:
False.

How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and the Success of the West
RODNEY STARK
**“Through all prior recorded history, slavery was universal — Christianity began in a world where as much as half the population was in bondage. But by the seventh century, Christianity had become the only major world religion to formulate specific theological opposition to slavery, and, by no later than the 11th century, the Church had expelled the dreadful institution from Europe.” **[My emphasis].
catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/how-christianity-led-to-freedom-capitalism-and-the-success-of-the-west.html

False. The Catholic Church has never been, and can never be, “corrupt”.

**The Protestant Reformation/ Indulgences
Question from Shane Brinegar on 11-06-2002: **
Many Protestant Theologians and Secular Historians say that the Church was corrupt during the time of the Reformation, and that it had fallen away from true Biblical Doctrines. They claim this is what lead Luther to Reform and his 95 theses. I have also read this in many church history books. Is the literature correct? Did Tetzel really preach, When the coin in the coffer rings the soul from purgatory springs. It sounds as though the church was using the sale of indulgences, as a way of taxation? Please Clarify. God Bless, Shane

**Answer by Fr. John Echert on 11-06-2002 (EWTN): **
No more true than for one who claims a few hundred years from now that during the time of the present sex scandal, the Church herself had fallen from her moral teaching on sexuality. Indulgences are a valid theological reality, and if in times past some abused the legitimate practice regarding these, that is a failure of members of the institutional aspect of the Church, not the Church herself, who remains always the spotless Bride of Christ. The analogy fits and is a reminder to Catholics to distinguish between the divinely appointed and guided Holy Church and the fallible human element within her. [My emphasis].
tinyurl.com/kg274px
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Joseph3 is right.

But the truth is hard to swallow.

You know how some Protestants can’t accept that the Catholic church goes all the way back and is the church Jesus started with Peter as the head?

Catholics do the same thing. They read history but it doesn’t seem to sink in. They come away thinking what they think and believing what they will believe.

History is history. It can’t be changed.

Martin Luther nailed that thesis to that door on that church in Germany 500 years ago because the original church had wandered off. He was trying to get it back on track but it wouldn’t hear of it.

He got kicked out. He didn’t leave. I also hear people say he should have changed the church from the inside. HE TRIED. The CC is powerful - I wonder sometimes, HOW was he supposed to change it from the inside? Was the Pope listening to him? We see where his efforts got him.

It would have been far superior had the Holy Spirit worked on the spirit of the Pope of that time and softened it up to make it understand how wrong the church was at that time. But we’re human and will always make mistakes. This was a big one. By the Pope I mean.

Does this sound like Catholic bashing to you? Try again. I’m SORRY it went the way it did. We’re supposed to be one church. Maybe there is no true church. Maybe it IS personal. Maybe the only true church is the one in Acts. Maybe. Sounds like there was trouble already in Thessalonia. Maybe we just can’t take the truth.

GG
 
Regarding Fr. Eckart’s reply.
What’s the use of having a spotless church
if the Pope himself allows wrong to be done??
 
anon67074017 said:
A large part of the Church was against liberty at the time of the Reformation. They wanted to suppress dissidents. Have you ever heard of Judge Claude Frollo? He was a fictional Catholic judge who was very corrupt during the 1400s. He did not follow Christ’s teachings.
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Love your penultimate sentence.
 
I think some folks are getting off topic with this Liberty talk and I also think they are confusing Liberty with license
 
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