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Tim_D
Guest
I’d be happy if you could identify one event that is not literally historical in the Gospels with an explanation as to why.
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
Why do you think we put Jesus’ life as recorded in the Bible as part of salvation history?
Just because Scripture isn’t a history book doesn’t mean actually mean none of the events happened.
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
Jesus’ baptism.
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Frankenfurter
Guest
Mu humble opinion on the OP’s question is that the event was real. But we have to remember that the author was NOT there. So we have God inspiring the author to describe what happened to Jesus.
Please stop on that point for a moment since there is much fruit there. God could have wrote the event down himself directly, but he didn’t. The scriptures were written directly into the hearts of men. God writes through the medium of his creation. Just like we might write with a ball point pen that we have manufactured, God writes using the disciples of Jesus.
So the imagery of the temptation is an interpretation from the Gospel writer of what God communicated to him. Just like in a dream when you interpret a deep spiritual event, it might come out as an image or a story. The details are not the message, the message and content is the spiritual matter. But we have no ‘real’ way to express that, so we make a story or an image.
We have a materialist bias that says only non-spiritual, physical things are ‘real’. So when we are given this spiritual reality, that Jesus was tempted by the devil, to our minds, it may seem to be confusing as to if the church says it really happened or not. But we latch onto the physical imagery to try to see if it was real, but in fact the reality of the event happened in a realm that we can’t partake in, so we have the interpretation, the image, or the symbolic representation of the real event given by the author who is interpreting what God gave him to communicate.
Please stop on that point for a moment since there is much fruit there. God could have wrote the event down himself directly, but he didn’t. The scriptures were written directly into the hearts of men. God writes through the medium of his creation. Just like we might write with a ball point pen that we have manufactured, God writes using the disciples of Jesus.
So the imagery of the temptation is an interpretation from the Gospel writer of what God communicated to him. Just like in a dream when you interpret a deep spiritual event, it might come out as an image or a story. The details are not the message, the message and content is the spiritual matter. But we have no ‘real’ way to express that, so we make a story or an image.
We have a materialist bias that says only non-spiritual, physical things are ‘real’. So when we are given this spiritual reality, that Jesus was tempted by the devil, to our minds, it may seem to be confusing as to if the church says it really happened or not. But we latch onto the physical imagery to try to see if it was real, but in fact the reality of the event happened in a realm that we can’t partake in, so we have the interpretation, the image, or the symbolic representation of the real event given by the author who is interpreting what God gave him to communicate.
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joseie
Guest
Whether true history (vulgar/decent) or not and whether written in chronological or not we have to go by the direct and literal meaning of the verses if they are clear enough. Nobody has the right to twist or interpret the meaning differently in such cases. If some thing is said as happened it should be taken as happened exactly the same way as mentioned therein. If in this process some thing said in the verses appears to be not correct or probable let it be like that.Consider that God has not choosen to reveal the mistery . But trying to justify saying that don’t go by the literal meaning etc won’t work now.
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Mintaka
Guest
Actually, the examination of a suspect by a Roman official was an official government act. There would have been guards present, as well as a government scribe who would take down a transcript of events. (And if the person was famous, there would probably be a fair number of rubberneckers, either in the room or just outside it.)
Most accounts of the trials of Roman martyrs seem to have been based heavily on transcripts from official records, augmented by personal descriptions by spectators of the martyrs’ demeanor. (It was common for a few Christians to attend trials and executions, the idea being that the martyr would see them in the crowd and be encouraged, and that the Christians could try to retrieve the bodies afterward. Of course, occasionally the Christians in the crowd would give themselves away or be recognized by hostile folks, so it was risky.)
Anyhoo, it does seem that only Jesus could have related the story of His temptation, as the Devil probably wouldn’t want to and you can’t believe anything he says.
Re: fitting into the Gospels literarily, let’s think about it. Isn’t Jesus always being approached and questioned and tested by all sorts of people? In this case, it’s a fallen angel instead of a Pharisee, scribe, Sadducee, Roman, or chief priest. Also in this case, all sorts of visual aids replace theoretical questions. But it’s still a game of “Stump the Rabbi with Bible Questions,” and it’s still someone trying to find out who this Jesus really is. The point of the story is that Jesus isn’t in league with the Evil One (remember, some people thought he must be healing and exorcising through the power of Beelzebub), that Jesus isn’t doing what he’s doing for any worldly display or power, and that he’s not under the Devil’s control in any way.
Jesus still doesn’t come out and say, “Oh, yeah, I’m God,” but as Jude pointed out by referring to the story about the Devil trying to get Moses’ dead body and St. Michael having to fight him for it, even the greatest prophets had done some kind of sin and were subject to the Devil’s power in some way. Except Jesus.
The other interesting thing is that with most of the prophets, we have stories of how they met with angels or with God, and received messages from them. But since Jesus already was God, we see different things happening with Him: the voice from nowhere at His Baptism giving a message to the people, Moses and Elijah coming to consult with Him at the Transfiguration and another Voice of God instructing other people, angels talking to the Apostles and disciples.after Jesus’ Resurrection and again after His Ascension. So the temptation by the devil is yet another example of how Jesus doesn’t need to get instructions or gifts of power from an angel (in this case, an evil one). Instead, He instructs the devil like a rabbi instructs an erring student.
So my contention would be that the story of the temptation in the wilderness does fit into the Gospels.
Most accounts of the trials of Roman martyrs seem to have been based heavily on transcripts from official records, augmented by personal descriptions by spectators of the martyrs’ demeanor. (It was common for a few Christians to attend trials and executions, the idea being that the martyr would see them in the crowd and be encouraged, and that the Christians could try to retrieve the bodies afterward. Of course, occasionally the Christians in the crowd would give themselves away or be recognized by hostile folks, so it was risky.)
Anyhoo, it does seem that only Jesus could have related the story of His temptation, as the Devil probably wouldn’t want to and you can’t believe anything he says.
Re: fitting into the Gospels literarily, let’s think about it. Isn’t Jesus always being approached and questioned and tested by all sorts of people? In this case, it’s a fallen angel instead of a Pharisee, scribe, Sadducee, Roman, or chief priest. Also in this case, all sorts of visual aids replace theoretical questions. But it’s still a game of “Stump the Rabbi with Bible Questions,” and it’s still someone trying to find out who this Jesus really is. The point of the story is that Jesus isn’t in league with the Evil One (remember, some people thought he must be healing and exorcising through the power of Beelzebub), that Jesus isn’t doing what he’s doing for any worldly display or power, and that he’s not under the Devil’s control in any way.
Jesus still doesn’t come out and say, “Oh, yeah, I’m God,” but as Jude pointed out by referring to the story about the Devil trying to get Moses’ dead body and St. Michael having to fight him for it, even the greatest prophets had done some kind of sin and were subject to the Devil’s power in some way. Except Jesus.
The other interesting thing is that with most of the prophets, we have stories of how they met with angels or with God, and received messages from them. But since Jesus already was God, we see different things happening with Him: the voice from nowhere at His Baptism giving a message to the people, Moses and Elijah coming to consult with Him at the Transfiguration and another Voice of God instructing other people, angels talking to the Apostles and disciples.after Jesus’ Resurrection and again after His Ascension. So the temptation by the devil is yet another example of how Jesus doesn’t need to get instructions or gifts of power from an angel (in this case, an evil one). Instead, He instructs the devil like a rabbi instructs an erring student.
So my contention would be that the story of the temptation in the wilderness does fit into the Gospels.
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edwest2
Guest
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Faith1960
Guest
Whew! I thought you were going to say he does look like that, and I don’t believe he does.
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