Was the world created in 7 days?

[buffalo]

I was not being uncharitable - I was being honest. This thread makes me - a Bible loving former Evangelical, question whether I made the right decision in becoming Catholic. And maybe it’s not this thead - maybe it’s been a long time coming - so there you go - no need to feel guilty at all.

It seems that Catholics do not view the Bible in the same way I do. The Bible has always been my lifeline to God. I GET IT that for Catholics the life line is the Church - not the bible. But that was not my experience.

So I thought when I converted that I could still hold to my love for the Bible - I can’t explain what the Bible means to an Evangelical - I can only liken it to a Catholics feel toward Mary. You love her - you respect her - and be damned the person who disregards her or disrespects. That is how I feel about the Bible.

So when I’m confronted with posters who call the Bible a “myth” and a “literary device” and something to be disregarded since modern science has proved it false and those views are apprently supported by the Church - it makes me think OHMYGOSH… what have I done? And in my head I hear those who said, “THEY don’t really believe in the Bible.”

And then I begin to question - if Genesis is symbolic or mythical - why is John 6 literal? Who says? Church Fathers? And so what? By far, most Chruch Fathers said up until 1950 that Genesis was literal - now these new & modern ones disagree. So maybe they’ll disagree about John 6? And then it makes me think what the heck am I even doing here? With all the liturgical abuses, millions of dollars in lawsuits due to perverted Priests, wayward Bishops doing their own thing, disunity up the ying yang - WHY am I here having a conversation about whether or not the BIBLE for God sake’s is a myth???

And it make me want to take my bible and Go Home.
If that makes me a “sissy” (name removed by moderator) - go ahead - call me a sissy. Call me whatever you want. I don’t really care at all.

Carol Marie,

The Catholic Church is like a three legged stool - Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium. Take any one away and the stool topples. Catholics love the Bible.

 

[carol_marie]

I don’t know how this thread made you question becoming Catholic, either, but don’t blame us if it did. You have a very strong opinion about the way things MUST be done that doesn’t jive with the Church. If this is the first time you have encountered that (and I seem to recall this happening before a long time ago), then perhaps it should be a lesson learned rather than a reason to give up on the Church.

Peace

Tim

I have no idea what you are talking about. I have NEVER once disagreed with the Church on this forum. Not since I’ve converted. I would have NEVER wanted anyone to stumble so even if I did disagree - I would not have posted that.

I do not really care what you or anyone else believes regarding Creation. Go ahead & think your relatives were Apes. I don’t care.

I have a problem with the way it seems the Bible is not respected. It is dismissed as “myths” - rather than taken literally except for John 6 which makes no sense to me. It is thought to be full of contradictions - THAT is my struggle. I had no idea how much that would bother me. But it does.

So forget it - it has nothing to do with any of you posters. You have only helped me to see how very different my views are from yours. You can go on your merry way knowing you stood up for what was right & true. Good for you. And meanwhile I’ll try to sort out my faith and the mess it’s become.

 

[buffalo]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I have NEVER once disagreed with the Church on this forum. Not since I’ve converted. I would have NEVER wanted anyone to stumble so even if I did disagree - I would not have posted that.

I do not really care what you or anyone else believes regarding Creation. Go ahead & think your relatives were Apes. I don’t care.

I have a problem with the way it seems the Bible is not respected. It is dismissed as “myths” - rather than taken literally except for John 6 which makes no sense to me. It is thought to be full of contradictions - THAT is my struggle. I had no idea how much that would bother me. But it does.

So forget it - it has nothing to do with any of you posters. You have only helped me to see how very different my views are from yours.

From the Catechism

134 All Sacred Scripture is but one book, and this one book is Christ, “because all divine Scripture speaks of Christ, and all divine Scripture is fulfilled in Christ” (Hugh of St. Victor, De arca Noe 2,8L 176,642: cf. ibid. 2,9L 176,642-643).
135 “The Sacred Scriptures contain the Word of God and, because they are inspired, they are truly the Word of God” (DV 24).
136 God is the author of Sacred Scripture because he inspired its human authors; he acts in them and by means of them. He thus gives assurance that their writings teach without error his saving truth (cf. DV 11).
137 Interpretation of the inspired Scripture must be attentive above all to what God wants to reveal through the sacred authors for our salvation. What comes from the Spirit is not fully "understood except by the Spirit’s action’ (cf. Origen, Hom. in Ex. 4, 5: PG 12, 320).
138 The Church accepts and venerates as inspired the 46 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New.
139 The four Gospels occupy a central place because Christ Jesus is their center.
140 The unity of the two Testaments proceeds from the unity of God’s plan and his Revelation. The Old Testament prepares for the New and the New Testament fulfills the Old; the two shed light on each other; both are true Word of God.
141 “The Church has always venerated the divine Scriptures as she venerated the Body of the Lord” (DV 21): both nourish and govern the whole Christian life. “Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path” (*Ps *119:105; cf. *Is *50:4).

 

[patg]

I have a problem with the way it seems the Bible is not respected. It is dismissed as “myths” - rather than taken literally except for John 6 which makes no sense to me.

I find it amazing that it is hard to accept that something can be true and also non-literal history. The mystery of our origins and the mystery of our suffering are two true realities that are dealt with through myth in the first chapters of Genesis.

A myth is about reality. Myth is not a synonym for fiction. In fact, we are not commenting on the truth or falsity of the content of something we call a myth at all, we are talking about the form. A myth represents a serious attempt to come to grips with reality. The myths that are revelation have succeeded in coming to grips with the reality of God’s relationship with human beings in a profound way.

A myth is about reality and it also an imaginative story that must use symbols because the reality the myth explores is one which is beyond the author’s comprehension.

A myth deals with reality but not with a specific event in recorded history. So instead of saying that a myth grows out of an event, I would say that it grows out of an experience - an experience of trying to understand realities beyond the author’s and/or the reader’s comprehension.

This outlook is perfectly in tune with the church, it is taught in many catholic adult education sessions and it is in books by catholic publishers.

 

[carol_marie]

From the Catechism

135 “The Sacred Scriptures contain the Word of God and, because they are inspired, they are truly the Word of God” (DV 24). ).

But what does the Word of God mean to a Catholic?

To an Evangelical it means that it is 100% true. NOT a myth. Adam & Eve - true - real people. Noah - real guy - built the ark.

No one at my old church would ever suggest that Genesis wasn’t how it happened. They may disagree over what a “day” means - or new earth vs. old earth - but they would all nod in agreement that the Creation happened just as it is written because God’s word is true.

(some) Catholics scoff at that. I was told over & over again that SCIENCE refutes Genesis. Like what kind of stupid idoit are you… EVERYONE knows that evolution is now FACT.

but then I’m told I’m welcome to believe Genesis if I want… right. Except I stand here alone. Oh wait, I’m standing with the other fundamentalist fools.

 

[carol_marie]

This is my crisis:

Let’s pretend for a minute that all of you are becoming Evangelical. (ok - I know it’s a stretch - go with it for a minute)

so you’re going to become Evangelical - and you’ve ironed out all of your “issues” and you’re ready to cross over except you’ve made it perfectly clear that you really really LOVE Mary. She means so much to you - always has. Your Catholic friends say, “They don’t care about Mary - not at all - oh they give her lip service but TRUST US - it’s not the same.”

BUT - you’re told by Evangelicals - don’t worry - we love her too. Oh, maybe not quite the same way Catholics love her - but we do. We love her the right way… trust us. Really. Mary is good. So you think - ok… I guess… and you convert.

And all is well for awhile - they do talk about Mary. They say she was good. But then you hear “Well she was JUST a woman - big deal.” SHE isn’t the basis of our faith anyhow." She wasn’t actually blessed - that’s symbolic NOT literal. Get with the program here - MARY is NOT what we’re about. And you think - OHMYGOSH - it is different - it is so very different.

And you freak because you were told up front it wasn’t the same. And you tried to tell yourself that it would not matter. But it does - it matters alot. And you think, What have I done? Mary for a Catholic is the Bible for an Evangelical.

That’s me. That’s what this thread drives home loud & clear. What have I done?

 

[Orogeny]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I have NEVER once disagreed with the Church on this forum. Not since I’ve converted. I would have NEVER wanted anyone to stumble so even if I did disagree - I would not have posted that.

No, perhaps not. You have, however, played this same tune about how you don’t know if you can be Catholic because of what the Catholic Church believes about the Bible.
carol marie:

When I decided to make the jump from my Fundamentalist background to the Catholic Church I knew I would be “adding” things to my faith… like Mary, the Saints, the Real Presence etc. but I mistakenly assumed that I would be able to take all I knew about the Bible WITH ME! I mistakenly believed that Catholics believed the Bible to be true. I was wrong. Over & over again I’m told that various parts of the Bible AREN’T historical - didn’t happen, just made up “stories.” First Genesis, and now the Gospels. I’m asking all of you former Bible believing Protestants… how were you able to disregard the truth of the Bible? How are you able to say that many parts of it didn’t happen actually happen - that it’s mostly a collection of literary forms? I’m not able to do that.

Peace

Tim

 

[Tom317]

This is my crisis:

Let’s pretend for a minute that all of you are becoming Evangelical. (ok - I know it’s a stretch - go with it for a minute)

so you’re going to become Evangelical - and you’ve ironed out all of your “issues” and you’re ready to cross over except you’ve made it perfectly clear that you really really LOVE Mary. She means so much to you - always has. Your Catholic friends say, “They don’t care about Mary - not at all - oh they give her lip service but TRUST US - it’s not the same.”

BUT - you’re told by Evangelicals - don’t worry - we love her too. Oh, maybe not quite the same way Catholics love her - but we do. We love her the right way… trust us. Really. Mary is good. So you think - ok… I guess… and you convert.

And all is well for awhile - they do talk about Mary. They say she was good. But then you hear “Well she was JUST a woman - big deal.” SHE isn’t the basis of our faith anyhow." She wasn’t actually blessed - that’s symbolic NOT literal. Get with the program here - MARY is NOT what we’re about. And you think - OHMYGOSH - it is different - it is so very different.

And you freak because you were told up front it wasn’t the same. And you tried to tell yourself that it would not matter. But it does - it matters alot. And you think, What have I done? Mary for a Catholic is the Bible for an Evangelical.

That’s me. That’s what this thread drives home loud & clear. What have I done?

Perhaps you should worry more about what the Church teaches, and not what Catholics think?

The Church professes a belief ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Chirst, and it also professes that the literal sense is primary when reading Scripture.

Welcome home.

 

[carol_marie]

No, perhaps not. You have, however, played this same tune about how you don’t know if you can be Catholic because of what the Catholic Church believes about the Bible.

Peace

Tim

Wow. I am impressed. You remember a post I made 3 YEARS ago prior to my conversion when I was stuggling with the same thing? And now here I am, some what 5,000 posts later and I’m “playing that same tune.” How annoying that must be that I bring this up YET again - 3 YEARS later. Talk about beating a dead horse, huh?

OBVIOUSLY this is a very difficult issue for me. It was before I converted - and is still is. I have tried to let it go - but here it is again, rearing it’s ugly head. So shoot me.

 

[freesoulhope]

So… if the seven days creation is considered a myth… then what about the fall of man with Adam and Eve?

Once you discount creation in the literal sense, you then poke holes in most of Genesis. Without a literal interpretation of Original Sin, you now have taken the relevence of not only the Word of God in the Bible, but the Gospel message as well.

Slippery slope indeed.

The creation story is true and false. There was an adam and eve, but the fall didn’t happen in the literal way story is presenting it. It is a physical representation of a spiritual reality. The writer of the story was not there to see the fall. Plus, the wirter has included a talking snake in the story. I think its pretty obvoius that its a myth.

 

[patg]

…And you freak because you were told up front it wasn’t the same.

But, who “told you up front”??? Did you investigate the real teachings from those who know? Did you read what the Pontifical Biblical Commission and various popes wrote about biblical analysis? You can find plenty of catholics who absolutely agree with you concerning literalistic interpretations - there is a fundamentalist element in Catholicism similar to that in the Evangelicals but the Catholic Church does not practice a literalistic “proof-text” approach to biblical studies.

To an Evangelical it means that it is 100% true. NOT a myth. Adam & Eve - true - real people. Noah - real guy - built the ark.

As I said above, saying something is a myth is not saying it is fiction. A myth is about reality. In fact, we are not commenting on the truth or falsity of the content of something we call a myth at all, we are talking about the form. A myth represents a serious attempt to come to grips with reality.

but then I’m told I’m welcome to believe Genesis if I want.

No, we all believe that God created everything which is exactly what Genesis says.

 

[Orogeny]

Wow. I am impressed. You remember a post I made 3 YEARS ago prior to my conversion when I was stuggling with the same thing? And now here I am, some what 5,000 posts later and I’m “playing that same tune.” How annoying that must be that I bring this up YET again - 3 YEARS later. Talk about beating a dead horse, huh?

OBVIOUSLY this is a very difficult issue for me. It was before I converted - and is still is. I have tried to let it go - but here it is again, rearing it’s ugly head. So shoot me.

Then perhaps forums such as this are not good places for you to spend time. Numerous people have told you that your literal interpretation of scriptures is acceptable to the Church. Why are you still having a problem? Do you not believe them? Do you disagree with the Church? How did you overcome your concern with this issue to the point you were able to join the Church and why isn’t that still valid?

Bottom line, Carol, is that I don’t think you are stupid. You are obviously troubled by this. If I had an issue like this, I would avoid places that caused me the consternation you are clearly experiencing. Places like this forum.

Peace

Tim

 

[carol_marie]

I thought it was what God wanted of me. I didn’t want to be Catholic. I begged Him not to ask me become Catholic. But I believed it was what HE wanted. At least I thought that’s what He wanted. I’m honestly no longer certain.

And NO that is not said to make anyone feel guilty so don’t you dare accuse me of that. And no doubt Orogeny will find some post I made in 2004 where I questioned previously if it was what God wanted of me. I’ll agree to that - so don’t bother with the search.

 

[carol_marie]

The creation story is true and false. There was an adam and eve, but the fall didn’t happen in the literal way story is presenting it. It is a physical representation of a spiritual reality. The writer of the story was not there to see the fall. Plus, the wirter has included a talking snake in the story. I think its pretty obvoius that its a myth.

right. because snakes can’t talk.

Crackers turn into Jesus but snakes can’t talk.

 

[carol_marie]

But, who “told you up front”??? Did you investigate the real teachings from those who know? Did you read what the Pontifical Biblical Commission and various popes wrote about biblical analysis?

I have no idea what that is. No - I didn’t read that.

I took RCIA, which was the equivilant of a 4th grade Sunday School class I used to teach. God exists. He loves you. Jesus was His Son. Basic as all out gets. The rest of the time they lit candles and we “meditated.”

So I I asked questions here - and I struggled every single step of the way. (hence my post from 2004) It is NOT easy to convert.

Look, I am not some Bible scholar. I’m just a Mom with kids. I go to mass & I read my Bible. I admitedly don’t know much about science beyond an 11th grade Biology class.

But I love the Bible. I believe it’s true and to hear people say that it didn’t happend - snakes don’t talk - how stupid - that just throws me for a loop. Because you know what? All of it is stupid when you think about it. NONE of it makes any sense. Someone walking on the water - can’t happen. Feeding 5,000 with a couple of fish & some old bread? Impossible. Raising people from the dead? Jesus in a cracker or a sip of wine? Yeah right. NONE of it makes any sense. If you say that obviously snakes can’t talk - what of the rest? It’s all stupid. Why do we bother at all? WHY? And then I move along to WHY do I base my whole life - everything on all this made up junk that makes no sense?

I agree - I should not post here.

 

[VociMike]

But what does the Word of God mean to a Catholic?

To an Evangelical it means that it is 100% true. NOT a myth. Adam & Eve - true - real people. Noah - real guy - built the ark.

But not true that we are literally to hate our father and mother and brothers and sisters and spouse and children. So while the bible is “100% true”, there is a specific meaning to that. The Church says that “Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”

So, there is a truth in Jesus’ words that we are to hate our father and mother and brothers and sisters and spouse and children, but it is not in this particular case a literal truth.

We are simply suggesting that, based on the collective workings of humanity’s God-given intellect in the various sciences, that there is a truth in Genesis, but it is not entirely a literal truth. What is literal and what is not (or may not be)? The Church tells us.

BTW, I just got Scott Hahn’s new book today, and in the very beginning he points out that God wills his mysteries to be known, both in the book of scripture and in “the book of nature”. They both tell truth about God.

 

[TylerAlex]

The creation story is true and false. There was an adam and eve, but the fall didn’t happen in the literal way story is presenting it. It is a physical representation of a spiritual reality. The writer of the story was not there to see the fall. Plus, the wirter has included a talking snake in the story. I think its pretty obvoius that its a myth.

See… you made my point. In YOUR mind, you cannot be convinced of talking snakes… or, moreso, a Global Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, a parting of the Red Sea, feeding of 5000 (loaves and fishes)… etc.

You paint God into a box of what He can and cannot do- because your mind cannot accept it. You, thus, reduce His authority and sovereignty.

Now that you are convinced that parts of the Bible are “myths,” what is to stop you from believing that all/most/many parts are not “myths” as well? Why stop at discounting talking snakes- there are plenty of reasons to now doubt angels, the devil, heaven and resurrection. There are already supposed preachers seriously saying that Christ wasn’t truly crucified on a cross and resurrected literally from the dead… simply a “story” meant to communicate… (blah, blah, blah).

The writer happens to be God… through men.

This becomes the slippery slope I referred to.

 

[VociMike]

See… you made my point. In YOUR mind, you cannot be convinced of talking snakes… or, moreso, a Global Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, a parting of the Red Sea, feeding of 5000 (loaves and fishes)… etc.

I’m getting a glimmer here of what may be the problem. I’m going to start a new thread on myth and miracles so we can all discuss it as believing Catholic brothers and sisters.

 

[look3467]

The Holy Spirit is the revealer of truth. The bible is a manual of instruction. There are many version made to try to clarify what may seem to be a better truth. But unless the Holy Spirit opens our eyes to see, we will remain blinded.

Now if some would venture out of the norm and research, study the manual with the intent to get at the better truth, the Holy Spirit will take notice of us and will lead one to where one may learn and understand what the real truth is.

God is a hidden God and reveals Himself to them that seek Him, for then is the effort made and faith becomes an action.

Always remembering, that God is not ignorant of any of our feelings, and or difficulties, but is ever very gentle and compassionate.

As long as one is taking steps to learn more about Him, there will never be a bad choice of bibles, books or other materials.

For God knows your heart and deals accordingly, lovingly and is kind and patient.

Hope this helps>>>AJ:heart:

 

[7777777Now]

Carol,

You seriously need to go talk to a priest about your issues with the Catholic Church. You may be worrying over nothing.

From how you’ve been talking I am really worried about you.

Keep the faith.

God Bless You,
James