Was there a Great Apostasy?- A discussion for Mormons and Catholics

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truthseeker32 said:
I have made a point of doing so at least two times a week. Unfortunately I have yet to have any sort of “aha” moment; in fact it seems that as time goes by I feel farther away from any sort of objective truth. I live with a skepticism so great that I no longer trust my own ability to reason.

I am also very much inclined to disagree that Catholicism is clearly true as you seem to imply. It may very well be true, but discovering this requires digging, not a simple glance.
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If you are not already, just pray for the grace of faith. His grace is sufficient.
 
truthseeker32 said:
I have made a point of doing so at least two times a week. Unfortunately I have yet to have any sort of “aha” moment; in fact it seems that as time goes by I feel farther away from any sort of objective truth. I live with a skepticism so great that I no longer trust my own ability to reason.
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My experience is, this is common among former LDS. Burned once, big time, you mistrust not only religious claims but your own ability to discern.

I worked through each point that I was viewing with skepticism. For myself, I reached a point where I had to take a leap of faith, or turn back. It was a point where I was the camel, that God was trying to pull through the eye of a needle.

I viewed the turning back with the same skepticism. Obviously, the leap of faith is a decision I am at peace with. I can’t say I trust my ability to discern any more than I did before. I trust where God has led me. It is, in a tightly packed nutshell, what Christ calls us to do. Die to yourself, and follow Him. I know how difficult that is to do. It is a process, that continues for a lifetime.

Look to Mary, and her ‘yes’.
I am also very much inclined to disagree that Catholicism is clearly true as you seem to imply. It may very well be true, but discovering this requires digging, not a simple glance.
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Perfectly ok to take the time to dig in. Conversion to Christ is a process, with no schedule and no timeline.

God bless you on your journey.
 
RebeccaJ said:
My experience is, this is common among former LDS. Burned once, big time, you mistrust not only religious claims but your own ability to discern.

I worked through each point that I was viewing with skepticism. For myself, I reached a point where I had to take a leap of faith, or turn back. It was a point where I was the camel, that God was trying to pull through the eye of a needle.

I viewed the turning back with the same skepticism. Obviously, the leap of faith is a decision I am at peace with. I can’t say I trust my ability to discern any more than I did before. I trust where God has led me. It is, in a tightly packed nutshell, what Christ calls us to do. Die to yourself, and follow Him. I know how difficult that is to do. It is a process, that continues for a lifetime.

Look to Mary, and her ‘yes’.

Perfectly ok to take the time to dig in. Conversion to Christ is a process, with no schedule and no timeline.

God bless you on your journey.
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Thank you for your kind words, RebeccaJ. They truly mean a lot.
 
truthseeker32 said:
pablope;9859243:
I have never expected it to happen in an instant. What made you assume I was? I have been searching, attending RCIA, and going to mass both for over three years now.
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Then my heartfelt apology…TS32…when you posted this…“Unfortunately I have yet to have any sort of “aha” moment; i”…I had assumed you were expecting one big revelation instance or moment…If you are up to it, and are comfortable…take comfort in the Virgin Mary…pray the rosary…if you have no qualms yet.

I will pray for your journey and the answers you seek…God will answer them in due time. God bless…
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There **was **a great apostasy, but the Church was triumphant over it. St. Irenaeus of Lyons’s description of the Gnostics is similar in many respects to Mormon teachings. Mormonism, with its Masonic origins, is a Gnostic religion. St. Clement of Alexandria, while using the word Gnostic to praise Christian mysticism, was also severely critical of the non-Christian Gnostics, who mixed the Greek/Roman philosophies with emerging Christianity. You will have to look up those writings and read them for yourself. “Against Heresies” and “Stromata” books four and five. It is almost as if the early Mormons read them and constructed their own religion based on them. The Church rejected Gnosticism at Nicaea in 325 AD. Mormons say that Christianity apostatized when our spiritual ancestors declared that Gnosticism was a heresy-- to the point of apostasy. Mormons just used Masonry to restore something that was rejected by the church in 325 AD.

The other date, with the deaths of the apostles, is derived from BY’s statement that they practiced polygamy, and were persecuted and put to death for that. Which is a total pile of hokum.
 
Jerusha said:
There **was **a great apostasy, but the Church was triumphant over it. St. Irenaeus of Lyons’s description of the Gnostics is similar in many respects to Mormon teachings. Mormonism, with its Masonic origins, is a Gnostic religion. St. Clement of Alexandria, while using the word Gnostic to praise Christian mysticism, was also severely critical of the non-Christian Gnostics, who mixed the Greek/Roman philosophies with emerging Christianity. You will have to look up those writings and read them for yourself. “Against Heresies” and “Stromata” books four and based on them. The Church rejected Gnosticism at Nicaea in 325 AD. Mormons say that Christianity apostatized when our spiritual ancestors declared that Gnosticism was a heresy-- to the point of apostasy. Mormons just used Masonry to restore something that was rejected by the church in 325 AD.
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Masonry has nothing to do with Gnosticism. Personally, I have no problem with Masonry, and could see how it would be compatible with Gnosticism – but it’s not Gnosticism.

While I happen to agree that Christianity apostacized around 325 by rejecting the Gnosis and becoming tied up with a worldly government, Mormons do **not **in fact say that it apostacized because Gnosticism was declared heresy. Mormonism is related to the ‘primitivist’ theology movement of the early to mid-1800s, which wanted to frame the Protestant Reformation as embodying the same spiritual validity as the early church movement, and asserted that Rome and liturgical orthodox traditions are apostate and ‘pagan’. Gnosticism didn’t come into play with the Mormon movement.
 
While I agree that the alliance between the Church and government was a mistake, I sincerely ask you to listen to the following podcasts on the Mormon X Mason interaction from a liberal Mormon Mason who is a firm believer in the social benefits of Masonry, and is somewhat conflicted by his Mormonism.

Here is the ultimate source on that topic:
mormonexpression.com/2011/07/05/144a-mormonism-and-masonry-the-background-part-1/
mormonexpression.com/2011/07/05/144b-mormonism-and-masonry-the-background-part-2/
mormonexpression.com/2011/07/12/145a-mormonism-and-masonry-into-the-restoration-part-1/
mormonexpression.com/2011/07/12/145b-mormonism-and-masonry-into-the-restoration/
mormonexpression.com/2011/08/02/149-mormonism-and-masonry-the-book-of-abraham-and-nauvoo/
mormonexpression.com/2011/08/23/152-mormonism-and-masonry-part-4-joseph-smith-and-beyond/

Approximately six hours of podcasts. I really know very little beyond what is included here. “George Miller” is the authority on the intersection between Mormonism and Masonry
 
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