G
GUYMAN
Guest
If not then how can we compare our temptations to his, etc?
- Status
G
Genesis315
Guest
He did not have concupiscence as we do (a disordered urge to sin, so to speak), but He did have temptations in the sense someone trying to coax Him or induce Him to sin based on our natural, ordered needs–and He resisted them all.
T
Teek
Guest
The Biblical accounts of his temptation in the desert seem to indicate that he was “put to the test.” He was definitively tempted.
Three rambling attempts to explain follow. I love this question. It’s deep. My answers: not so much. But I will try.
Attempt #1
He was obedient, even to death. You can’t exactly be obedient without free will. We wouldn’t say, “That robot is very obedient.” We would say, “That robot is well-programmed.” Free will means the possibility of choice.
I have four kids. My oldest son is very invested in hard work and helping. If I ask him to do pretty much anything, he will do it without grumbling. My youngest son is more…spirited. He will weasel his way out of EVERYTHING if I don’t stay attentive to what he is up to.
If I ask my oldest son to do something, I count it done. He absolutely has the free will to do what my youngest son does, and after watching for a minute anyone can see that I am really not attentive enough! So he knows that he could avoid taking out the trash and I probably wouldn’t notice until tomorrow.
He does it anyway. Every time. It’s not that he can’t disobey, it’s that he won’t. Does that mean his obedience is less real than when my wayward little guy summons his goodness from deep, deep inside and obediently does what I ask? Not at all.
Attempt #2
There are three responses to God’s Law. Violate the law (sin), and be subject to the consequences of the Law. Obey the Law against your will to avoid the consequences, so being subject to the rule of law itself. Finally, loving the Law and so freely choosing to obey it—and therefore not subject to the Law or to the consequences of violating the Law. Completely unchained.
Perfect Freedom—Jesus loved God perfectly, and freely. His will was one with the Father. Our goal is actually to do the same thing-become perfectly yoked to the will of the Father so that the yoke is easy and the burden light.
The possibility for him to sin existed. He did not do it.
Attempt # 3
Kids in a religion class I was teaching once had this discussion about the Passion. Well, he was GOD, so it was easy for him! My instinctive reaction was to explain how it was HARDER for him. If the Jews had me arrested and condemned to death, once they had me in chains there would not be one single thing I could do about it. I’d go through the entirety of the passion because I’d have zero choice. But Jesus commands the legions of angels—the military might of the angels!! (Which he reminded Peter when Peter tried to stop the guards from arresting him.) And so he possessed the ability and power to, with one word, stop the whole thing. Til his very last breath.
Spit on me one more time…SMITE.
You call THAT a scourging?! SMITE.
Get your hands off my mother! SMITE.
Hammer and nails. SMITE!
But he made the choice not to with every step he made toward Golgotha. With every drop of blood, with every last beat of his heart—he drank every last drop of the cup.
I believe his temptation was a lot worse than anything we can imagine.
Three rambling attempts to explain follow. I love this question. It’s deep. My answers: not so much. But I will try.
Attempt #1
He was obedient, even to death. You can’t exactly be obedient without free will. We wouldn’t say, “That robot is very obedient.” We would say, “That robot is well-programmed.” Free will means the possibility of choice.
I have four kids. My oldest son is very invested in hard work and helping. If I ask him to do pretty much anything, he will do it without grumbling. My youngest son is more…spirited. He will weasel his way out of EVERYTHING if I don’t stay attentive to what he is up to.
If I ask my oldest son to do something, I count it done. He absolutely has the free will to do what my youngest son does, and after watching for a minute anyone can see that I am really not attentive enough! So he knows that he could avoid taking out the trash and I probably wouldn’t notice until tomorrow.
He does it anyway. Every time. It’s not that he can’t disobey, it’s that he won’t. Does that mean his obedience is less real than when my wayward little guy summons his goodness from deep, deep inside and obediently does what I ask? Not at all.
Attempt #2
There are three responses to God’s Law. Violate the law (sin), and be subject to the consequences of the Law. Obey the Law against your will to avoid the consequences, so being subject to the rule of law itself. Finally, loving the Law and so freely choosing to obey it—and therefore not subject to the Law or to the consequences of violating the Law. Completely unchained.
Perfect Freedom—Jesus loved God perfectly, and freely. His will was one with the Father. Our goal is actually to do the same thing-become perfectly yoked to the will of the Father so that the yoke is easy and the burden light.
The possibility for him to sin existed. He did not do it.
Attempt # 3
Kids in a religion class I was teaching once had this discussion about the Passion. Well, he was GOD, so it was easy for him! My instinctive reaction was to explain how it was HARDER for him. If the Jews had me arrested and condemned to death, once they had me in chains there would not be one single thing I could do about it. I’d go through the entirety of the passion because I’d have zero choice. But Jesus commands the legions of angels—the military might of the angels!! (Which he reminded Peter when Peter tried to stop the guards from arresting him.) And so he possessed the ability and power to, with one word, stop the whole thing. Til his very last breath.
Spit on me one more time…SMITE.
You call THAT a scourging?! SMITE.
Get your hands off my mother! SMITE.
Hammer and nails. SMITE!
But he made the choice not to with every step he made toward Golgotha. With every drop of blood, with every last beat of his heart—he drank every last drop of the cup.
I believe his temptation was a lot worse than anything we can imagine.
S
spiderweb
Guest
I really like the whole post, but since I can’t “like” it multiple times, I’ll also give it
A
alcuin18
Guest
I’ve thought about this a lot too, and I actually asked the apologists on the main site but haven’t gotten a reply yet. It seems to me that while as God, He obviously couldn’t sin, as a man, with a human soul and body, He would’ve had the same free choice we do and so was technically capable of sinning (even though as I said, as God He really couldn’t have).
To me, this is the main reason why His salvific act ‘worked’, why it had true validity: because a human must be able to go through the greatest temptations, suffer immensely, yet never sin and die as a willing, truly pure sacrifice to pay the debt for our original sin. But, a normal human couldn’t possibly do this, even if we didn’t have original sin (since even the Blessed Virgin couldn’t have given us salvation by doing as Christ did). As God, however, He could endure anything without sinning.
Further, as Pope Benedict said in his first Jesus book, in the Garden Christ experienced not only Satan’s temptation at that moment, but every temptation humans have ever felt, the full brunt of sin, because as God He is outside of time and was united in his humanity to all people ever. Yet, He still didn’t sin. To me, his capacity to sin as a human was an integral part of this, since Him being human was necessary for salvation, but this isn’t based on doctrine and is just my personal view of it, I could very well be wrong.
God bless!
To me, this is the main reason why His salvific act ‘worked’, why it had true validity: because a human must be able to go through the greatest temptations, suffer immensely, yet never sin and die as a willing, truly pure sacrifice to pay the debt for our original sin. But, a normal human couldn’t possibly do this, even if we didn’t have original sin (since even the Blessed Virgin couldn’t have given us salvation by doing as Christ did). As God, however, He could endure anything without sinning.
Further, as Pope Benedict said in his first Jesus book, in the Garden Christ experienced not only Satan’s temptation at that moment, but every temptation humans have ever felt, the full brunt of sin, because as God He is outside of time and was united in his humanity to all people ever. Yet, He still didn’t sin. To me, his capacity to sin as a human was an integral part of this, since Him being human was necessary for salvation, but this isn’t based on doctrine and is just my personal view of it, I could very well be wrong.
God bless!
T
Teek
Guest
I love it!
Yes! And this is why he didn’t just come as a divine person with a divine nature, but he also took on human nature-became man.
Pope Benedict XVI has the coolest, most intricate way of pulling out the patterns in salvation history and making sense of them in light of the whole.
T
TINYAD
Guest
Concupiscence is inclination to sin. This is human. This is due to the consequence of the original sin. This is a dire situation. Without inclination how can one all into temptation.
Debatable.
Debatable.
T
Teek
Guest
This is true. But we also say suffering entered into the world through the fall of man. Would we also say that this means that Jesus could not suffer?
Without having been subject to original sin, Jesus should not have suffered, either. But he did. So it is not excluded that he could have made himself subject to the other consequences of sin as well.
Hebrews 2:17-18
17 Therefore he had to be made like his brethren in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make expiation for the sins of the people.
18 For because he himself has suffered and been tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.
Hebrews 4:15-16
15 For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sinning.
16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
- Status