Was there nothing before the Big bang?

[Catolico65]

From a scientific point of view, the Big Bang is still the most accepted theory.

As far as to what happened before the big bang the real question is how did all the mass in the universe come to be in such a relatively small space of equal density and temperature. this violates the law of entropy. It is amazing so many atheist scientist fail to see the importance of this singular event.

 

[ProVobis]

From a scientific point of view, the Big Bang is still the most accepted theory.

As far as to what happened before the big bang the real question is how did all the mass in the universe come to be in such a relatively small space of equal density and temperature. this violates the law of entropy.

Wasn’t the state of entropy at its minimum at absolute zero (degrees)? I have to think about this in context of what Brendan wrote. Need to go back and find my old textbook on thermodynamics.

 

[Catolico65]

Wasn’t the state of entropy at its minimum at absolute zero (degrees)? I have to think about this in context of what Brendan wrote. Need to go back and find my old textbook on thermodynamics.

The real question is how did all the mass get in one place at a uniform density. It’s as if something put it there because it couldn’t have gotten there according to the laws of physics as we understand them.

If this isn’t the finger of God staring at us nothing is. And yet these atheists scientist like Hawkings come up with theories that lead us to believe he is raving mad or just mad at God.

 

[Brendan]

Wasn’t the state of entropy at its minimum at absolute zero (degrees)? I have to think about this in context of what Brendan wrote. Need to go back and find my old textbook on thermodynamics.

Molecular kinetic entropy, yes, but not other forms of entropy. Nucleic entropy, for example, is at it’s lowest in Iron. But that was NOT the most common element produced by the expansion.

Entropy is really a measure of the states that are possible for a system. Generally speaking, a event like the Big Bang (or really any of the other systems) would statistically result in a system that had a state of high entropy. The universe SHOULD have resulted in an expanding cloud of subatomic particles, or recollapse into a black hole.

What happened instead, the creation of a universe where elements are possible, where gravity is sufficient to form stars, but too large where gravity collapses every star into a black hole. where atomic nuclei can form, and fuse and fission.(but not too easily).

All of that is so mind-bogglingly statically unlikely it’s incredible. A physicist (Penrose) calculated the odds a 10^10^123 to 1 against.

ws5.com/Penrose/

 

[Charlemagne_III]

All of that is so mind-bogglingly statically unlikely it’s incredible. A physicist (Penrose) calculated the odds a 10^10^123 to 1 against.

ws5.com/Penrose/

Your point is well taken. Penrose has described himself as an atheist, yet in the documentary “The History of Time” he says: “I think I would say that the universe has a purpose, it’s not somehow just there by chance … some people, I think, take the view that the universe is just there and it runs along – it’s a bit like it just sort of computes, and we happen somehow by accident to find ourselves in this thing. But I don’t think that’s a very fruitful or helpful way of looking at the universe, I think that there is something much deeper about it.”

It’s as if he is baffled by the unlikelihood of living in this universe, but is unwilling to attribute that fact to a Creative God. What else then is “much deeper”?

 

[dmwessel]

Unfriendly to whom? You mean niceness not love. True love is a awful thing (in the older sense of the word). It’s power goes way beyond niceness to include violence.

No, I mean in the sense that the physical universe itself, beyond the earth, is extremely un-hospitable to human existence.

The earth too is unfriendly, wars, disease, mass starvation, unfairness, poverty, etc.

 

[kbachler]

From a scientific point of view, the Big Bang is still the most accepted theory.

As far as to what happened before the big bang the real question is how did all the mass in the universe come to be in such a relatively small space of equal density and temperature. this violates the law of entropy. It is amazing so many atheist scientist fail to see the importance of this singular event.

There was no mass. There was no Higgs field, and hence no mass prior to Big Bang.

 

[kbachler]

But to hear people like biologist Richard Dawkins, the arrow of time moves either way.

On the quantum level, one can view events as a particle moving forward in time, or alternatively, as an anti-particle moving backward in time, with the same meaning.

 

[kbachler]

Interestingly enough, most of the problems of the Big Bang are only problems if one is NOT an Intelligent Design proponent, such as accounting for why the universe immerged from the super-expansion in such a low entropy state and the apparent violation of the conservation of matter\energy.

Actually, there’s nothing interesting about that. If one is ID, one assumes that there is a directed reason for everything so the problems go away.

Science is concerned about how and the physical why (i.e. cause and effect) not answer an God/no God question.

What apparent violation of the conservation of matter/energy? Keep in mind that there’s no reason to assume that the current physical laws existed before they existed. There is also a growing question about whether physical laws might be time variant or time functional.

 

[Della]

No, I mean in the sense that the physical universe itself, beyond the earth, is extremely un-hospitable to human existence.

Was it supposed to be hospitable to air breathing creatures? Many bacteria can survive in space, but we’re not simple bacteria. Instead of looking at what we can’t have why not be grateful for our beautiful planet that is our home and sustainer of life? Earth lives in space, too you know. So, you are wrong. Space does contain hospitable places for mankind–they’re called class M planets.

The earth too is unfriendly, wars, disease, mass starvation, unfairness, poverty, etc.

All are our fault , the fault of men in rebellion against God’s will, not God’s fault. Every problem is only an opportunity if seen the right way. We are to help one another and build one another up. If we followed Christ’s command to love each other as he loved us, we’d have eliminated all our evils long ago.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

No, I mean in the sense that the physical universe itself, beyond the earth, is extremely un-hospitable to human existence.

The earth too is unfriendly, wars, disease, mass starvation, unfairness, poverty, etc.

Isn’t this hyperbole? If the Earth was really unfriendly, why don’t we all just jump into the Grand Canyon? The simple fact is that life is good. We all want to live. Some of us are better at it than others.

On Earth we have won the planetary lottery. There may be other planets that have also won it.

 

[DaveBj]

No, I mean in the sense that the physical universe itself, beyond the earth, is extremely un-hospitable to human existence.

The earth too is unfriendly, wars, disease, mass starvation, unfairness, poverty, etc.

snip

All are our fault , the fault of men in rebellion against God’s will, not God’s fault. Every problem is only an opportunity if seen the right way. We are to help one another and build one another up. If we followed Christ’s command to love each other as he loved us, we’d have eliminated all our evils long ago.

Okay, how about earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, hurricanes, volcanos, droughts, and so on? Even tho Earth is nicely situated in the Goldilocks Zone, it can be very inhospitable at times and in some places.

 

[kbachler]

All are our fault , the fault of men in rebellion against God’s will, not God’s fault.

Was this not a situation created by God?

 

[Della]

Okay, how about earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, hurricanes, volcanos, droughts, and so on? Even tho Earth is nicely situated in the Goldilocks Zone, it can be very inhospitable at times and in some places.

Not enough to kill off our species, though. And we have been given intelligence to guard against these natural processes, if we only use it.

 

[dmwessel]

Was it supposed to be hospitable to air breathing creatures? Many bacteria can survive in space, but we’re not simple bacteria. Instead of looking at what we can’t have why not be grateful for our beautiful planet that is our home and sustainer of life? Earth lives in space, too you know. So, you are wrong. Space does contain hospitable places for mankind–they’re called class M planets.

That’s twisting what I was saying. The universe is not friendly and neither is the earth to human habitation. It’s a wonder we survived but it was only 'the strong survived" which is an evolutionary development.

All are our fault , the fault of men in rebellion against God’s will, not God’s fault. Every problem is only an opportunity if seen the right way. We are to help one another and build one another up. If we followed Christ’s command to love each other as he loved us, we’d have eliminated all our evils long ago.

Yeah right, the Spanish Inquisition comes to mind.

 

[Della]

Was this not a situation created by God?

What situation?

Wars? He never intended that we should war with one another over anything. It was man’s fall that necessitated some wars to be fought against evil, both ancient and modern.

Famine, we have the ability right now to end famine, but again men’s evil motives stand in the way.

Disease, never meant to touch us before the fall, but still we have the intelligence to combat this.

Mass starvation, again, due to our failure to feed everyone.

Unfairness, directly against God’s law.

Poverty, due to our own greed.

Our planet was meant to be a blue beacon of beauty and life in the swirling galaxy in which we live. We made it into a mess by our own actions and inactions. God made us innocent and free, we chose self-centeredness and the chains of evil that come with it.

Anyway, we are going way off topic.

 

[Della]

That’s twisting what I was saying. The universe is not friendly and neither is the earth to human habitation. It’s a wonder we survived but it was only 'the strong survived" which is an evolutionary development.

Sorry, I don’t buy into that empty philosophy which is not science nor based in real science. We survive because we were meant to survive because God created us good and the universe good. We’ve spoiled it by our choice to sin.

Yeah right, the Spanish Inquisition comes to mind.

And what do you really know about it? I’ll bet you’ve never read any real history regarding it, have you? Do so, and then come back to talk about it.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Okay, how about earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, hurricanes, volcanos, droughts, and so on? Even tho Earth is nicely situated in the Goldilocks Zone, it can be very inhospitable at times and in some places.

This is to confound a part for the whole.

On mother Earth we most of the time in most of the places find the Earth hospitable.

 

[dmwessel]

Sorry, I don’t buy into that empty philosophy which is not science nor based in real science. We survive because we were meant to survive because God created us good and the universe good. We’ve spoiled it by our choice to sin.

Of course it’s science. In space you have wear a spacesuit and live in a container - otherwise the elements (or lack thereof) would kill you in an instant - that is most definitely unfriendly. And even concerning the earth, animals survive by killing and eating each others (definitely unfriendly).

 

[kbachler]

Sorry, I don’t buy into that empty philosophy which is not science nor based in real science. We survive because we were meant to survive because God created us good and the universe good. We’ve spoiled it by our choice to sin.

I found this funny, because of course, the second and third sentences are not science, nor are they based in real science.