Was this catholic bashing, was I wrong

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anna

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I just returned home after having coffee with a friend, we had to share a table as the place was full. The woman with whom we were sharing the table with knew we were Catholic from the brief talks I had with her on different occasions. She proceeded to ask the waitress "being a lutheran, I need to ask you why does the Catholic church combine two parishes, for I was just reading an obit about an old friend and it listed that the Mass would be at the combination of two Churches and being that you are Catholic maybe you can answer me. The waitress response was “Being Catholic priest were molesting boys there were so many law suits that they were going broke in different dioceses and they had to close parishes down and combine them., and another thing I always wondered is why don’t they sell some of the gold candles,Crucifixes etc… that they have in Rome, don’t get it. all that gold and it just sits for decoration… With that all said I had enough and said “Alright now I have been sitting here listening to this and it is nothing but Catholic bashing and I do not want to hear anymore, thank you.” I was told to mind my business that no one was talking to me” 'It is my business I said for I’m Catholic and will no listen to this. Well leave I was told…,Please stop bashing catholics.I said They both looked at one another.If you wish we can discuss this at another place and time , the woman at the table said Anna your something else and stooped her Bashing and went back to reading paper…I got angry first and protected of my Religion and my Church was I wrong in responding as I was told or was I right… Please respond as I did respond as they did with a little of raising my voice. Thank you and God Bless.
 
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I don’t know about anyone else but your response sounds okay to me. People should not have to sit by and listen to others trash their faith, regardless of what faith it is.
 
It sounds like she was curious, but had many errant ideas.

The fact is that many dioceses had to close churches because they were out of money. She wasn’t wrong on that.

You’ve probably just driven her farther from the Church.

Good job.
 
People with the viewpoints of the waitress are not going to somehow come around to the idea of the church, regardless of whether the situation is addressed by a diplomatic whiz or not.

Loving your faith and having an emotional reaction about tactless discussions once in a while is human and understandable.
 
If she already knew you are Catholic, and she started this conversation with the waitress, I’d say she was trying to bait you. I personally would have ignored it.
 
I would hate to think I drove someone away from the church or “farther” away as you put it. That would lay heavy on my heart; Is it a FACT that churches had to close for the reason she stated? God Bless
 
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I’d disengage from that friendship as she likes to argue. No Bueno.
For anyone of any faith.
Churches closed because of declining numbers and declining donations. There are MANY root causes of this.
The pat answer by the waitress was ridiculous, and the fact that it troubles a person that a funeral is here there or anywhere shows that she just wanted to argue. It’s not really about going to a Mass for the deceased, which is the worst kind of thing.
Some friend. :roll_eyes:
 
I would have done the same, in fact I have. If anyone disses my Lord, my faith, or anyone I revere I let them know straight up how I feel about it.
 
I wouldn’t necessarily say she was trying to be antagonistic (mostly). It’s true that the church has had a problem with molestation. It’s true that people have been unsatisfied by the church’s response. It’s true that the Vatican has a lot of wealth. She went about it in a pretty passive aggressive way, but these are valid concerns that can be talked through
 
That was an ambush on the part of your “friend.” A friend is someone who thinks enough of you, to respect your feelings. They would also never drag an unknown third party into a conversation, not knowing where the conversation would go. Myself, I would cut this friend off until I got a sincere apology.

As far as the waitress goes, she was just plain rude. I would be on the phone with her manager. I would not put anyone through what both of these people put you through, under any circumstances. I just would not tolerate it. Inexcusable.
 
You didn’t drive anyone away, don’t worry. You stood up for the Truth in a respectful way. Nothing wrong with that at all.
 
anna said:
Is it a FACT that churches had to close for the reason she stated? God Bless
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The idea that parishes have closed directly because of the law suites is not correct.

Many people misunderstand how the Dioceses and Parishes are funded. Many people wrongly think that the dioceses take money from rich parishes and give it to poor ones. That does not happen, though sometimes dioceses may financially help poor parishes that have historic significance or a special mission.

The dioceses are funded though the bishop’s appeal, a small tax to each parish, and via other donations (plus some services that might be charged per use). Parishes are obviously locally funded by their parishioners.

A lot of people think that the dioceses and parishes operate financially on a “corporate model” but really they operate more like a franchise or subsidiary model.

When a diocese goes bankrupt, that doesn’t directly affect the parishes (other than the services that the parishes receive from the diocese).

The real reason parishes are closed is because the parish itself can no longer afford to be kept opened and most dioceses can no longer afford to keep bailing them out. This was actually a problem long before the sex abuse crisis.

Neighborhood demographics change. When many parishes were created in the 1800s (and before), there was obviously no cars. So more Churches were needed because people needed to walk to Church or ride a horse. But the car allowed the population to spread further out and lead to creation of suburban parishes too. When this happened, many inner city parish populations were replaced by non-Catholics. For example: a once Irish neighborhood in Philadelphia replaced by mostly protestant African Americans.

So changing demographics are one reason.

Also, the fact that only ~20% of Catholics attend Mass every weekend is a major contributor too. While rich parishes can sometimes support that (due to health contributions of a few rich parishioners) poor parishes suffer when people don’t come to mass. And these mass attendance numbers were similar before the sex abuse scandals.

In reality, the only thing the sex abuse law suits did was force dioceses into dealing with their financial problems instead of continuing to put it off.

BTW - in regards to selling gold and art… honestly what good would that do? Unless an art piece was sold to a museum, it would no longer be able to provide benefit to the faithful and honestly, it would only pay the bills for what? 1 - 3 months? Not to mention, the fact is that most parishes actually do not have many valuables. A lot of “gold” is really brass or gold plating (depending on what it is). Also, the MAJORITY of expensive things the Churches do have were donations from parishioners, for the parish. Priests don’t take those things with them. And the most “valuable” things most parishes have really have little financial value to non-Catholics; i.e. relics, stain glass windows, murals, etc.

So having a “yard sale” to pay the bills or help the poor is really not a realistic solution.

God Bless!
 
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Honestly, I’m surprised a Lutheran would say something like that. Usually it’s Non-Denominationals and the like who talk like that.
 
She had absolutely no business asking waitress any kind of question like that. If I caught a patron in my restaurant asking a question like that they would be out on their assets on the sidewalk. What makes you think that is ok?
 
Another poster hinted at the way that the scandals may have caused church closing is indirect.

The parishes that were most hurt were not ones that were closed because of attendance or because there’s another church close, they are the ones that were rural. Especially ones that served transient populations like tourists or college students. Or ones that had elders on strict budgets. The dioceses would use their money to help fund these churches that were not funded through parishioner efforts.

However, with their budget being diverted, these parishes were left to fail and often did. One could argue that “they had it coming” but I, myself, feel that is very short-sighted. In one of the places I lived, it meant that the winter ski traffic attendees (whose donations would often see the church through year-round budget needs) no longer can attend Mass when they are on their vacation because the church is over an hour away. This makes it especially hard for locals and ski employees. And one year was a bad ski year…and the church was out of money. With no diocesan help they had to shut their doors.

So no, it’s not like the Church went around closing parishes for money-saving reasons, but many had to be closed because the dioceses could no longer support those unique missions.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
Another poster hinted at the way that the scandals may have caused church closing is indirect.

The parishes that were most hurt were not ones that were closed because of attendance or because there’s another church close, they are the ones that were rural. Especially ones that served transient populations like tourists or college students. Or ones that had elders on strict budgets. The dioceses would use their money to help fund these churches that were not funded through parishioner efforts.

However, with their budget being diverted, these parishes were left to fail and often did. One could argue that “they had it coming” but I, myself, feel that is very short-sighted. In one of the places I lived, it meant that the winter ski traffic attendees (whose donations would often see the church through year-round budget needs) no longer can attend Mass when they are on their vacation because the church is over an hour away. This makes it especially hard for locals and ski employees. And one year was a bad ski year…and the church was out of money. With no diocesan help they had to shut their doors.

So no, it’s not like the Church went around closing parishes for money-saving reasons, but many had to be closed because the dioceses could no longer support those unique missions.
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Yes, thank you for providing more color regarding what I called “special missions”
 
Well done you. There are times we speak up, and times we don’t.
 
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