Was this Euthanasia?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CrimsonThorn
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CrimsonThorn

Guest
My aunt suffered from several types of cancer for many years, but one day had a brain implosion that left her unable to move, speak, possibly interpret speech, eat…although he neurologist made it clear that she was not “brain dead.” Wihout being able to chew and swallow the doctor said G tube would work.

Now I overheard my uncle and my cousins talking, using phrases like “this isnt quality of life” “what kind of life is this?” etc.

Well they opted for no G tube and the hospital let her go home in her current state, my family opted to take her off of water and nutrient IVs as well. A week later my aunt died.

Eventually the cancer wouldve did the job, but I felt funny about the whole situation.

Thoughts?
 
Although her neurologist said that she was not “brain dead” and would be able to survive this way if a G tube were to be implemented*
 
I am sorry for your loss.

Eternal rest grant unto her, O Lord.
And may perpetual light shine upon her.

The quality of someone’s life does not depend on their ability to function. Nutrients and water should not be taken away unless a person is in the final stages of death. So yes, this was euthanasia. 😦
 
I am sorry for your loss.

Eternal rest grant unto her, O Lord.
And may perpetual light shine upon her.

The quality of someone’s life does not depend on their ability to function. Nutrients and water should not be taken away unless a person is in the final stages of death. So yes, this was euthanasia. 😦
Thats what i thought too, although seeing her like that did LOOK like the final stages of death…but the doc said she could live like that…and it took a week and a half pretty much until she died after that once they took her off the IVs. I cant even begin to imagine the suffering, and my aunt was such a gentle and kind person.
 
My aunt suffered from several types of cancer for many years, but one day had a brain implosion that left her unable to move, speak, possibly interpret speech, eat…although he neurologist made it clear that she was not “brain dead.” Wihout being able to chew and swallow the doctor said G tube would work.

Now I overheard my uncle and my cousins talking, using phrases like “this isnt quality of life” “what kind of life is this?” etc.

Well they opted for no G tube and the hospital let her go home in her current state, my family opted to take her off of water and nutrient IVs as well. A week later my aunt died.

Eventually the cancer wouldve did the job, but I felt funny about the whole situation.

Thoughts?
I will join you in praying for her, but don’t dwell on this question, because after the fact it serves no use, and can only cause bad feelings between you and those who opted to withhold nuitrients and hydration.

And, I will join you in praying for those who made the decision.

It sounds like their actions, although wrong, were not intentionally malicious, so please don’t use this sorrowful occassion to be a source of anger for you, and guilt for them. Regardless of the unfortunate outcome, your aunt is now with the Lord.

Love each other!

And
 
My deepest sympathies on your loss. I will keep you, your aunt and your family in my prayers.

It depends on what, if any, your aunt’s instructions to her doctors and family were, as many people in your aunt’s situation discuss these scenarios in advance. I am not entirely sure about that but I think if you state it to your doctor, it is permitted, as no Catholic is bound to have life-saving treatment when terminally ill, we can choose to die without treatment. I found this article which might help, especially the part entitled “Middle of the Road” osv.com/OSV4MeNav/WhattheChurchTeaches/WTCTEndofLifeIssues/ExtraordinaryMeansofCare/tabid/491/Default.aspx

As a previous poster stated, there is no benefit in dwelling on this. It will only poison your relationship with your uncle and cousins. Whatever you may feel about their decisions, they were made with your aunt in mind and done out of love for her. They need your support and your prayers. If this was euthanasia, then they need your prayers even more.

If this was euthanasia, then keep in mind that all of us have sinned, all of us have had to go into a confessional, or should have done so. Only God and your relatives know if this was a mortal sin, as that would require full knowledge and full consent, which might have been lacking under such stressful and emotional circumstances.

I hope this helps you. God bless.
 
Very sadly, they starved and dehydrated her to death.

I am so very sorry for your loss - I will pray for the repose of her soul, and the souls of your family. This must be very difficult for you. 😦

~Liza
 
My aunt suffered from several types of cancer for many years, but one day had a brain implosion that left her unable to move, speak, possibly interpret speech, eat…although he neurologist made it clear that she was not “brain dead.” Wihout being able to chew and swallow the doctor said G tube would work.

Now I overheard my uncle and my cousins talking, using phrases like “this isnt quality of life” “what kind of life is this?” etc.

Well they opted for no G tube and the hospital let her go home in her current state, my family opted to take her off of water and nutrient IVs as well. A week later my aunt died.

Eventually the cancer wouldve did the job, but I felt funny about the whole situation.

Thoughts?
In Catholic medical ethics official pronouncements strongly oppose active euthanasia, whether voluntary or not[3], while allowing dying to proceed without medical interventions that would be considered “extraordinary” or “disproportionate.” The Declaration on Euthanasia states that:

“When inevitable death is imminent… it is permitted in conscience to take the decision to refuse forms of treatment that would only secure a precarious and burdensome prolongation of life, so long as the normal care due to a sick person in similar cases is not interrupted.”

The Declaration concludes that doctors, beyond providing medical skill, must above all provide patients “with the comfort of boundless kindness and heartfelt charity”.

Although the Declaration allows people to decline heroic medical treatment when death is imminently inevitable, it unequivocably prohibits the hastening of death and restates Vatican II’s condemnation of “crimes against life ‘such as any type of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia, or willful suicide’”. [2]
No matter how ill a patient is, we never have a right to put that person to death. Rather, we have a duty to care for and preserve life.

But to what length are we required to go to preserve life? No religion or state holds that we are obliged to use every possible means to prolong life. The means we use have traditionally been classified as either “ordinary” or “extraordinary.”

“Ordinary” means must always be used. This is any treatment or procedure which provides some benefit to the patient without excessive burden or hardship.

“Extraordinary” means are optional. These are measures which do present an excessive burden.

The distinction here is NOT between “artificial” and “natural.” Many artificial treatments will be “ordinary” means in the moral sense, as long as they provide some benefit without excessive burden. It depends, of course, on the specific case in point, with all its medical details. We cannot figure out ahead of time, in other words, whether or not we ourselves or a relative want some specific treatment to be used on us “when the time comes,” because we do not know in advance what our medical situation will be at that time or what treatments will be available. When the time does come, however, we must consult on the medical and moral aspects of the situation. Remember, procedures providing benefit without unreasonable hardship are obligatory; others are not. You should consult your clergyman when the situations arise.
 
It depends on what, if any, your aunt’s instructions to her doctors and family were, as many people in your aunt’s situation discuss these scenarios in advance. I am not entirely sure about that but I think if you state it to your doctor, it is permitted, as no Catholic is bound to have life-saving treatment when terminally ill, we can choose to die without treatment.
Yes, it comes down to the benefit/burden analysis in the patient’s judgement.
G tube can come with many problems that each person must determine for themselves if it is worth it…

medicine.virginia.edu/clinical/departments/medicine/divisions/digestive-health/nutrition-support-team/nutrition-articles/LynchArticle.pdf

This may be more than you want to know about more options.

coursewareobjects.com/objects/evolve/E2/book_pages/nutrition/pdfs/matareseCh17.pdf
 
Having been a nurse for 48 yrs, the last 38 yrs in a geriatric center, I have taken care of many residents with G -tubes in place and I have already informed my family that in event of my needing a G-tube to prolong my life, I definitely DO NOT want one. There are too many complications and unnecessary suffering. Besides G-tubes in my opinion comes under “extrordinary means” and so does IVs. They cause much suffering and pain, especially the IVs when they infiltrate and have to be restarted numerous times causing trauma, infections and much pain. So please let God take me without “extrordinary” help.

That is my opinion. When I was a student nurse these options did not exsist and when they did, they became extrordiary means, now they are considerated ordinary. I just don`t agree with that concept.🤷
 
Not to side track, chococat, but do you have a favorite nursing theorist?
I just discovered them a few months ago.
 
As stated by many here, it was euthanasia. Providing food and water is not considered to be “extraordinary measures.”

Here is a quote from Blessed John Paul II:

“The sick person in a vegetative state, awaiting recovery or a natural end, still has the right to basic health care (nutrition, hydration, cleanliness, warmth, etc.), and to the prevention of complications related to his confinement to bed . . . Death by starvation or dehydration is, in fact, the only possible outcome as a result of their withdrawal. In this sense it ends up becoming, if done knowingly and willingly, true and proper euthanasia by omission.” – Pope John Paul II, 2004
 
As stated by many here, it was euthanasia. Providing food and water is not considered to be “extraordinary measures.”

Here is a quote from Blessed John Paul II:

“The sick person in a vegetative state, awaiting recovery or a natural end, still has the right to basic health care (nutrition, hydration, cleanliness, warmth, etc.), and to the prevention of complications related to his confinement to bed . . . Death by starvation or dehydration is, in fact, the only possible outcome as a result of their withdrawal. In this sense it ends up becoming, if done knowingly and willingly, true and proper euthanasia by omission.” – Pope John Paul II, 2004
I was aware of Blessed John Paul ll`s quote, but have attended many End Of Life semanaries and comfort and pallative care and sedation is more humane than IVs etc.and have taken care of several patients that were in hospice care. They were kept very comfortable.

I have no particular theorist.
 
it is only permissible to withhold food and water if the person can no longer assimilate food and water. In any other situation, withholding food is causing the person to starve to death. In this particular case, the OP’s aunt would have been able to survive longer with a feeding tube. While a person may be in pain, it is not for us to determine the quality of a person’s life or when a person should die. That is left up to God alone. God has a plan for everyone’s life and sometimes that includes pain and suffering. Here are a few resources I found:
saintpetercatholic.com/blog2/2008/05/sedation-and-dehydration-mercy-or.html

saintpetercatholic.com/blog2/2008/05/food-and-water-are-basic-human-rights.html

prolifewisconsin.org/files/Feeding%20&%20Hydration.pdf
 
When people argue for “quality of life” they are implicitly claiming that life is only valuable insofar as one can feel pleasure or avoid suffering. This means that the weak and suffering are unequal in value to the “normal” people, This is a utilitarian approach to the value of life.
 
Hmmm?

Pavanelli says she believes that the Pope’s doctors dutifully explained the situation to him, and thus she surmises that it was the pontiff himself who likely refused the feeding tube after he’d been twice rushed to the hospital in February and March.
.
.
.
.
The Vatican quickly fired back this week. John Paul’s longtime doctor Renato Buzzonetti, who now monitors Pope Benedict XVI, said that doctors and John Paul himself all acted to stave off death. “His treatment was never interrupted,” Buzzonetti told the Rome daily La Repubblica. “Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken.” He added that a permanent nasal feeding tube was inserted three days before the Pope’s death when he could no longer sufficiently ingest food or liquids. Buzzonetti did not specifically respond to Pavanelli’s claim that John Paul needed a tube weeks, not days, before he eventually died.

Read more: time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1664189,00.html#ixzz27LaS4IM9
 
My aunt suffered from several types of cancer for many years, but one day had a brain implosion that left her unable to move, speak, possibly interpret speech, eat…although he neurologist made it clear that she was not “brain dead.” Wihout being able to chew and swallow the doctor said G tube would work.

Now I overheard my uncle and my cousins talking, using phrases like “this isnt quality of life” “what kind of life is this?” etc.

Well they opted for no G tube and the hospital let her go home in her current state, my family opted to take her off of water and nutrient IVs as well. A week later my aunt died.

Eventually the cancer wouldve did the job, but I felt funny about the whole situation.

Thoughts?
I think that the G tube is considered an extraordinary measure: however, I also understand that taking a person off the IV that deliver water and nutrients is not acceptable.
 
It all comes down to what else is going on. Every situation is different.
What if the person is confused and starts pulling on the G-tube?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top