Was Yahweh a leading "general" or God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter minichibi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

minichibi

Guest
Sorry about this question. I was reading previous forum posts about the Exodus as well as the Exodus itself. I think Yahweh in the Bible, especially in the Exodus, is depicted so humanly that I have this question. Sometimes it feels like a human being that can be touched, hit, he even fought alongside Moses, he told Moses to build a door so he couldn’t get hit. If a multitude of people left Egypt with the Jews, if you consider they spoke different languages isn’t it likely that a person named Yahweh was with them and Moses leading the whole group to a military job, and the Jews not knowing their language was mistaking a real person for a Deity? That adds up to the “Elohist” portions of the Bible and the name Yahwah (or something like that) being heard in Egypt.
Sorry, I know this is a very ignorant question, but I honestly want to have this cleared up.
 
YHWH is the name for God Himself. If He appears humanly depicted in the OT, it is because God is a Someone, a Person, three Persons in one God, in fact. We humans are made in His image. God is not just a something. He wants a personal relationship with us. We can recognize this deep truth when we read in the OT about God forming His Chosen People of the First Covenant. Of course, Jesus came and gave us the New Covenant which allows anyone, Jew or Gentile, to become part of God’s People through baptism. Jesus was a further revealing of the reality that God is a Someone, not a something. God does not merely create and then sit back and watch. God interacts with the world he has created, in a myriad of ways. Keep reading through the Bible to discover more of those amazing ways.
The Israelites were brought from an understanding of YHWH as their tribal deity to a rich monotheism over centuries. Then Jesus came and expended and corrected their understandings, to include an awareness of the Trinity and so much more.
Also, check out the stories about St. Christopher! Those are pretty amazing for trying to understand God and personhood.
 
If you know anybody human that can speak out of a bush that burns but isn’t consumed, and that walks around in the shape of a pillar of fire and a pillar of smoke by turns, I think you’ve got superhero friends.

YHWH isn’t just a name, either. It’s a Hebrew verb tense that covers past, present, and future, applied to the verb “to be.” This eternal verb tense is only used in the name of YHWH.

Finally, it’s fairly clear that God in Exodus is not at all like a human, except that He keeps bending over backward to humanize Himself in the eyes of His People by how He talks to them. He clearly wants them to think of God as not being like the Egyptian and Middle Eastern gods, which had human and animal forms, or were personified forces of nature. He continually teaches them that He is the God Who is strange and untouchable and beyond human understanding, but also a person Who cares for them all as family, and cares about what they do, good or bad. And, beyond that, He is God Who does things, and Who doesn’t just sit back being neutral. Moses needs to learn these things, and the rest of the Israelites need to be reminded that they already learned these things, from Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.

If you are confused about the humanized poetic idioms in Exodus, I would have thought that you also would have been confused by Genesis, and by later OT books, that all do the same thing.

Jewish and Christian tradition agrees (except for a few heresy folks in Egypt back in St. John Chrysostom’s time) that YHWH/God the Father doesn’t have hands, eyes, etc. as such. YHWH/God the Father is pure spirit, and all talk about body parts in relationship to Him is a poetic metaphor. “Eyes” mean God’s perception of everything and His omniscience. “Hands” mean His almighty power. And so on.

You will find plenty of sources teaching this, because poets love to explain how the Bible is like poetry, and most Jewish and Christian teachers have been very fond of the beauty and strength of Biblical poetic and rhetorical devices. If you’ve never learned much about poetry in school, you should learn now, if you want to understand the poetic parts of the Bible. (Which are scattered throughout all the books, as well as being chockablock in the books that are all poetry, like the Psalms.)
 
What you’ve described, in effect, is Euhemerism. That is, the reverse deification of a person. Early Icelandic Monks postulated that the gods of the Heathen were in fact once people, people whose exploits were so grandiose that it caused the people to believe that they were gods.

Now, as others have covered the nature of the Tetragrammaton, I won’t recover previously exposed ground. However, what I will do is state that, historically, when a man assumes a deific nature, he doesn’t assume transcendent characteristics. For example; when Alexander the pagan Greek conqueror assumed a deific nature, he did not attempt to explain his deity through transcendent terms, no one truly expected that he had the power to bend the natural laws. The pagan emperor Caligula, on the other hand, did make such claims. His power languished and he is predominately forgotten today. Yahweh El Shaddai, the Lord God Almighty, on the other hand, has not been similarly forgotten.

There is a trend in Jewish Testament writing to split the character of God into quadrants. When God is referred to as Elohim (in the plural of magnificence) it is to express His universality, His being God to the Jews and Gentiles. When God is referred to as Yahweh, it is to express His predilection toward the Jews. Therefore we could expect the character Yahweh to exhibit certain humane characteristics that would not need be employed in His Elohim moniker.

I hope this piques your interest. For more information I would recommend you go to the Institute of Catholic Culture and download some of their exegetical podcasts, the information I have relayed, specifically, comes from Deacon Sabatino’s presentation concerning Noah and the Flood. If you search for God, I strongly recommend you listen to this as it will help you defend against some of the modernist heresies promulgated (mainly by faithless Catholics) which suggest the Old Testament is little more than stylised fables whose power lies only in moral authority with no claims to fact.

I shall keep you in my prayers, until then, may God bless you and keep you!
Paul,
 
YHWH is the name for God Himself. If He appears humanly depicted in the OT, it is because God is a Someone, a Person, three Persons in one God, in fact. We humans are made in His image. God is not just a something. He wants a personal relationship with us. We can recognize this deep truth when we read in the OT about God forming His Chosen People of the First Covenant. Of course, Jesus came and gave us the New Covenant which allows anyone, Jew or Gentile, to become part of God’s People through baptism. Jesus was a further revealing of the reality that God is a Someone, not a something. God does not merely create and then sit back and watch. God interacts with the world he has created, in a myriad of ways. Keep reading through the Bible to discover more of those amazing ways.
The Israelites were brought from an understanding of YHWH as their tribal deity to a rich monotheism over centuries. Then Jesus came and expended and corrected their understandings, to include an awareness of the Trinity and so much more.
Also, check out the stories about St. Christopher! Those are pretty amazing for trying to understand God and personhood.
Very nice. The relationship aspect is so often forgotten when contemplating God.
 
Another proof is that from all Canaanite deities, YHWH is the only one that isn’t represented by idols at all!!! 🙂 (a “statue” of YHWH was never ever found, while you can find “statues” of all other gods)
 
Another proof is that from all Canaanite deities, YHWH is the only one that isn’t represented by idols at all!!! 🙂 (a “statue” of YHWH was never ever found, while you can find “statues” of all other gods)
Actually aniconism per se wasn’t unique to the Israelites, although the active ban on making images of the divine was.

Scholars generally define two types of aniconism, both related to one another: material aniconism, which refrains from using effigies, but rather makes use of abstract images or symbols - like poles ('asherah) or standing stones (maṣṣeboth) to symbolize the divine (cf. Greek xoanon and the Hindu lingam), and empty space aniconism, which makes use of an empty space as a symbol for the god’s presence. Genuine West Semitic (Canaanite) religion in general was aniconic: for most West Semitic religions, a sacred place meant an open-air temenos with stelae. (There were exceptions to this, particularly in areas like cities, where we have evidence of iconic cults.) Now there are some cultures, like the Phoenicians who favored the ‘sacred emptiness’-type of aniconism: very often what was chosen was the image of an empty throne or animals like bulls, where the deity is envisioned to sit or ride upon.

West Semitic aniconism wasn’t of the “thou shalt not make any graven image” type, as the Israelite version was: while the norm amongst the majority was to use abstract symbols, there was nothing which prevented the use of actual effigies or figurines to represent gods. It was not a question of prohibition, but of preference and mentality.

We could see that the early Hebrews originally held the former, although they would also eventually adopt the latter. Within the Old Testament we often hear of maṣṣeboth being set up in commemoration of some event (usually a divine revelation) or in memory of someone. On at least four occasions, Jacob sets up a standing stone in connection with certain events of his life: the most well-known is, of course, after he receives the vision of the stairway reaching to heaven in Luz/Bethel (Genesis 28:18). In Genesis 31 (v. 45-54), Jacob erects another stone, as well as a mound, as a witness of his decision to leave Laban. After his return to Bethel, God appears again to Jacob, and once more, Jacob erects yet another maṣṣebah in memory of this (Genesis 35:14-15). Not too long after this event, Rachel dies and Jacob sets up one last stone in his wife’s grave (35:20). Also, God’s covenant with Israel through Moses was represented by twelve maṣṣeboth erected at the foot of Mount Sinai, one stone for each tribe (Exodus 24:4). Finally, the book of Joshua also records a number of times that such monuments were erected pointing to the power of God: in Joshua 4:20-24 for example, Joshua sets up twelve stones taken from the Jordan in memory of Israel’s miraculous crossing of the river. Near the end of his life, after Joshua challenged the Israelites to serve God, he takes a large stone and sets it “under the oak that was in the sanctuary of Yhwh” as a witness against them should they deny the Lord (24:25-27).

It was not a huge step from the idea of the standing-stone as a sign of the presence of the divine or the manifestation of a god to accepting the stone itself as a representation of the deity, and there was not need for it to be hewn in the shape of a statue: even in its crude, natural shape, the maṣṣebah is a symbol of the god. In latter days, the connection between maṣṣeboth and worship of false gods seems to have strengthened to the point that even making one was eventually frowned upon altogether.

The cherubim in the Ark of the Covenant and in Solomon’s Temple, as well as the golden calf (and Jeroboam’s calves) all seem to be representatives of the latter category of empty space aniconism: the cherubim (we shouldn’t imagine here the cute babies of the Renaissance, but rather the winged men or human-animal hybrids of Ancient Near Eastern and Egyptian iconography) and the ‘calves’ are envisioned to be the steeds and/or the throne of the invisible Yhwh, the “Rider of the cherubim.”


Standing stones (Gezer)


Standing stones (Hazor)


Standing stone (Shechem)

http://www.bu.edu/anep/BethShanthrone.gif
Empty throne (Beth-Shan)


Empty throne (Tyre)

We do not know exactly when the Israelites, which eventually rejected even standing stones in its cult, moved from West Semitic de facto aniconism to a programmatic one (which is close to iconoclasm but developing out of the aniconic tendency of an earlier time). We can already see its signs however by the 7th century BC, when Judahite name seals show a clear tendency towards aniconicity, a tendency that is not exclusive but begins even further back and then becomes quite pronounced. (There are two other Semitic peoples which moved from de facto standing-stone aniconism to iconoclasm: the Nabataeans and the Arabs.)

Some, however, think that the best way to interpret the evidence is thus: aniconism was the official, dominant position throughout Israelite history, but it was not totally uniform. (For example, Moses’ bronze serpent - which was later became a focus of worship - and Micah’s silver idol.) From earliest times, the main or official cult of the God of Israel was largely aniconic, as represented in its leaders and its sanctuaries. At earlier times, a number cultic paraphernalia that were later regarded as ‘idols’ seem to have been tolerated in some circles, but were eventually condemned outright by major elements of the official cult (for example, prophets and kings). At the same time, unofficial, domestic cults and extramural shrines were probably more open to iconography and maybe even outright housed images of the Deity - which is also eventually frowned upon.
 
Thanks Patrick, you always come up with something interesting! 👍 BTW I always wanted to ask… do you have a degree in History, or you are just very interested in the subject/read a lot? You seem to know a lot 🙂
 
Sorry about this question. I was reading previous forum posts about the Exodus as well as the Exodus itself. I think Yahweh in the Bible, especially in the Exodus, is depicted so humanly that I have this question. Sometimes it feels like a human being that can be touched, hit, he even fought alongside Moses, he told Moses to build a door so he couldn’t get hit. If a multitude of people left Egypt with the Jews, if you consider they spoke different languages isn’t it likely that a person named Yahweh was with them and Moses leading the whole group to a military job, and the Jews not knowing their language was mistaking a real person for a Deity? That adds up to the “Elohist” portions of the Bible and the name Yahwah (or something like that) being heard in Egypt.
Sorry, I know this is a very ignorant question, but I honestly want to have this cleared up.
The name of God (here rendered as “Yahweh” (sic!) ) is an amalgamation of the Hebrew verbs for “was” היה for “is”: הווה and for “will be” יהיה and speaks to the eternalness of God. When speaking of God, the Jewish scriptures often use a metamorphic approach speaking of the “outstretched arm” of God or the “face” of God. The Jewish reader knows not to give a literal meaning to such references, which would be antithetical to the Jewish concept of God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top