Wasn't Jesus a Muslim?

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i’m not talking about the details and laws of the massage , i’m talking about the main principles of the massage of God to all his prophets
**“All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matthew 22:39 **

i completely agree with you , that’s why i say that massage of jesus is the same of islam 🙂
With due respect, but Christians will disagree with you on this point.

People who say this only simplifies thing to accomodate the divides between Christianity and other religions. While religions do teach this but in Christianity no matter how important this teaching is, in fact the ‘main’ teaching for one to live a Christian life, it is never meant to be the main message. The main message is the good news. The Good News is that those who believe are saved.

What is it to believe? - That God came to earth and saved us of our sins by giving his only Son. That’s the message of Jesus and the main teaching of Christianity.

The OP had a point here - that there is difference in how Islam and Christianity view Jesus.

Hope that helps.

Remember, for Christianity it is the Good News. That makes it unique. Any religion can teach about love and being charitable to others but none teaches about the Savior.

In addressing a poster who said that Jews did not believe in the Trinity. This is not true. Early Christians were mostly Jews. All of Jesus 12 apostles and disciples were Jews. They believe in Jesus and the Trinity. It is the religion Judaism that does not.
 
Are all Jews and Christians ‘Muslim’ also?
Not all , but some of them

AND THEY claim, “None shall ever enter paradise unless he be a Jew” - or, “a Christian”. Such are their wishful beliefs! Say: “Produce an evidence for what you are claiming, if what you say is true!”

Yea, indeed: everyone who surrenders his whole being unto God, and is a doer of good withal, shall have his reward with his Sustainer; and all such need have no fear, and neither shall they grieve.

the verb surrender is translated from “*Aslma *” where from its root comes the word “Muslim”.

the word "everyone" in “*Yea, indeed: everyone” includes the Christians and Jews
 
I just did some search in the Quran on (who is a Muslim ?)

Everything
3:83 Do they seek, perchance, a faith other than in God, although it is unto Him that whatever is in the heavens and on earth surrenders itself, willingly or unwillingly, since unto Him all must return?
**

Some of Abraham’s seed**
2:128 "Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslims, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

one house in Lot’s people
51:36 But We found not there any Muslims except in one house.
**
Pharaoh (but not really)**
10:90 And We brought the children of Israel across the sea; and thereupon Pharaoh and his hosts pursued them with vehement insolence and tyranny, until [they were overwhelmed by the waters of the sea. And] when he was about to drown, [Pharaoh] exclaimed: “I have come to believe that there is no deity save Him in whom the children of Israel believe, and I am of those who surrender themselves unto Him (Muslims)”
**
Jewish Prophets**
5:44 Verily, it is We who bestowed from on high the Torah, wherein there was guidance and light. On `its strength did the prophets, who had surrendered themselves unto God, deliver judgment unto those who followed the Jewish faith
**
Queen of Sheba **
27:44 [After a while] she was told: “Enter this court!” - but when she saw it, she thought that it was a fathomless expanse of water, and she bared her legs. Said he: “Behold, it is [but] a court smoothly paved with glass!” Cried she: “O my Sustainer! I have been sinning against myself thy worshipping aught but Thee]: but [now] I have surrendered myself, with Solomon, unto the Sustainer of all the worlds!”

Some of the Jins
72:14 "'Yet [it is true] that among us are such as have surrendered themselves to God - just as there are among us such as have abandoned themselves to wrongdoing. Now as for those who surrender themselves to Him - it is they that have attained to consciousness of what is right;

The disciples of Jesus

3:52 When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: “Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah.” Said the disciples: "We are Allah’s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims

5:111"And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger. they said, ‘We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims’".

Christians (even before the time of the Quran)

And when it is recited to them, they say: "We believe therein, for it is the Truth from our Lord: indeed we have been Muslims from before this
 
But the Christian and Jewish understanding regarding this issue has evolved since the time of the Quran…any way,the emphasis of mine was on the second part ,that include Christian and Jews in the term “Muslim”
 
Muhammed (pbuh) is just a prophet. Unlike christians-we do not make our messengers become sons of God.

wasalam
I know you meant well as you try to explain your religion. However that statement is offensive simply because it is not true. By saying that you are putting words into our mouths - that makes it offensive.

Like, not unlike, Muslims, Christians too do not makes their prophets become sons of God (you’re saying but actually meaning Christians make Jesus as a Son of God) Note the big cap.

If I am not mistaken the line that Christians elevate their prophets into God was started by Ahmad Deedat in his false attack against Christianity. A truly dishonest man was he as he put untruth after untruth about Christianity. May his soul rest in peace for what he had done.

We can never make prophets as God. Jesus was both man and divine and that was proven by his words and actions. It was written all over the Bible.

The only reason that Muslims do not believe that Jesus is also divine was because Mohammad said so. The only viable reason why Mohammad did that was because - if Jesus was divine then Mohammad had no place at all. It all looks like political motive and racial rivalry between the Arabs and the Jews. That is my personal opinion and so I could be wrong.

But what’s clear is that the prophethood of Mohammad is most difficult to be convincing. His coming was not foretold nor prophesized. None. He did no miracle as normally what prophets should do. The only real miracle that Muslims attribute to Mohammad was the Quran. I am yet to be convinced that the Quran was a miracle. I started a thread on that and hopefully Muslims can show us where is the incomparable beauty of the Quran that stands above all other books?

There are many reasons why Mohammad should convince us with miracles since he contradicted major historical truth by saying that Jesus was not divine and did not die on the cross - facts that were witnessed by his disciples and already widely believed by Christians during his time.

There was no Injeel that Mohammad talked about other than the Bible that was already in existence during his time. So for him to come up with an idea that so contrasting to what already been revealed and in the Holy Bible makes it difficult to believe in him. Not that we ask for miracle for the sake of wanting one.
 
Using the same word for ‘a follower of Islam’ and ‘believer in God’ only leads to confusion and (perhaps) manipulation.

It would make sense for Muslims to abandon using the word Muslim to describe anyone except a follower of Mohammed.
 
Using the same word for ‘a follower of Islam’ and ‘believer in God’ only leads to confusion and (perhaps) manipulation.

It would make sense for Muslims to abandon using the word Muslim to describe anyone except a follower of Mohammed.
one can use the same logic and say that Christians should abandon using the word Allah to describe God (Actually this happened in Malaysia where they ban Christians from using the word Allah ,and their reasoning it the same as yours,that it leads to confusion)
 
With due respect, but Christians will disagree with you on this point.
why christians will disagree with me about this point ? did you noticed that i used the bible to proof my point
“All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matthew 22:39
will they disagree with mathew either ?

or may be i misunderstood you :confused:
People who say this only simplifies thing to accomodate the divides between Christianity and other religions. While religions do teach this but in Christianity no matter how important this teaching is, in fact the ‘main’ teaching for one to live a Christian life, it is never meant to be the main message. The main message is the good news. The Good News is that those who believe are saved.
What is it to believe? - That God came to earth and saved us of our sins by giving his only Son. That’s the message of Jesus and the main teaching of Christianity.
thanks for your participation , i completely understand you
but actually , i’m from those people who take the authority of jesus’s words as more valuable than whoever of later christians concludes or say
The OP had a point here - that there is difference in how Islam and Christianity view Jesus.
i confess that there is difference in how islam and christianity view jesus
i think that we just believe that there’s no difference in **how muslims and jesus view God **
Hope that helps.
Remember, for Christianity it is the Good News. That makes it unique. Any religion can teach about love and being charitable to others but none teaches about the Savior.
i believe that mohammed (pbuh) is my savior , if i followed his teaching and his massage , i will be in safe
but may be you take the word “savior” by another understanding which depend on story you believed in
In addressing a poster who said that Jews did not believe in the Trinity. This is not true. Early Christians were mostly Jews. All of Jesus 12 apostles and disciples were Jews. They believe in Jesus and the Trinity. It is the religion Judaism that does not.
are you have any proofs that 12 apostles believed in trinity
 
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Hadi:
The disciples of Jesus

3:52 When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: “Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah.” Said the disciples: "We are Allah’s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims

5:111"And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger. they said, ‘We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims’".

Christians (even before the time of the Quran)

And when it is recited to them, they say: "We believe therein, for it is the Truth from our Lord: indeed we have been Muslims from before this

We have no problem with Jesus being a Muslim, insomuch it means a Muslim being one who submits to God.

But today understanding of a Muslim – he is a person who professes the religion of Islam, the one that was taught by Mohammad.

That’s the problem. Jesus could never be a Muslim in that sense.

I think it’s as simple as that.

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. There will be no new revelation other than what had been revealed by him which was complete and need no tinkering. All humans wait for now is the last day – the Day of Judgment.
 


are you have any proofs that 12 apostles believed in trinity
Thanks for the response. 🙂

Certainly we have. Remember - that Christianity is a religion of apostolic witnesses. This maybe is too heavy for you to completely understand but there are documents and documents available on this. It would be truly admirable if Muslims are interested in reading them because they can be really long. Some are as old as the Bible itself and all can be traced back to the apostles. It’s a bit late now - if you don’t mind you can browse into what we called the ECF - Early Church Fathers, and its all there.

Maybe it suffices for this purpose - that the Church had been in existence through a long line of apostolic witnesses / successions and traceable back to the first apostle. The first Pope being the apostle Peter himself. That line has never been broken. The Vatican in Rome is one living tomb that has seen history throughout the ages of Christianity.

And yes, we have proof that the apostles believed in the Trinity. Of course this belief came in stages. It was not until after the resurrection of Jesus that this fact became very clear to them and how they understood that Jesus was truly divine. You might want to know what Pentecost means - it’s relevant to this explanation.

I got to go. I’ll catch up with you.

God bless you.
 
We have no problem with Jesus being a Muslim, insomuch it means a Muslim being one who submits to God.
.
I agree…
But today understanding of a Muslim – he is a person who professes the religion of Islam, the one that was taught by Mohammad.
That’s the problem. Jesus could never be a Muslim in that sense.
By the same logic,Arab Christians should not use the name Allah ,since it is related to the religion of Islam …

but I agree that the first thing that comes to mind when saying “a Muslim” is a picture of someone praying 5 times a day and reciting the Quran in Arabic…but definitely the Jewish prophets were not doing the these things…

But now why is the an issue,because in the Quran , these figures are called Muslims…but you know…they are also called “Mu’mins” meaning “believers” but that does not seem to make much trouble…
 
Muhammed (pbuh) is just a prophet. Unlike christians-we do not make our messengers become sons of God.

wasalam
Once again you have it backwards - perhaps you have been hanging around with planten too long. 😛 Christians have not made Jesus into God - God came to us as Jesus.
 
Thanks for the response. 🙂

Certainly we have. Remember - that Christianity is a religion of apostolic witnesses. This maybe is too heavy for you to completely understand but there are documents and documents available on this. It would be truly admirable if Muslims are interested in reading them because they can be really long. Some are as old as the Bible itself and all can be traced back to the apostles. It’s a bit late now - if you don’t mind you can browse into what we called the ECF - Early Church Fathers, and its all there.

i have to confess that i have no intensions to read it , but i’m really interest to get your point , you can quote from it to proof your point no mattarhow long you will quote , but i will appreciate if you did that for me 🙂
Maybe it suffices for this purpose - that the Church had been in existence through a long line of apostolic witnesses / successions and traceable back to the first apostle. The first Pope being the apostle Peter himself. That line has never been broken. The Vatican in Rome is one living tomb that has seen history throughout the ages of Christianity.
you too 🙂
 
Originally posted by Jay53
I fully agree in the Bible verses you quoted - to love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself. Loving your neighbor as yourself does not mean killling unbelievers, “taking not Jews and Christians as friends”, turning aside from pagans because they are “unclean”. Your/my neighbor is every human being on earth.
Originally posted by elwill
i completely agree with you , that’s why i say that massage of jesus is the same of islam
If you completely agree with me, then why are you a follower of Islam? The negative aspects I quoted above are all part of Islam and Muhammad’s message and NOT part of Jesus’ message.

(1) O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. and he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #51)

(1) Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”
( سورة الأنفال , Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #12)

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.
 
If you completely agree with me, then why are you a follower of Islam? The negative aspects I quoted above are all part of Islam and Muhammad’s message and NOT part of Jesus’ message.
because i don’t believe that it’s the teaching of islam either , i believe that you misunderstood the quran , . muslims have christians friends around the worlds , right ? 🙂
(1) O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. and he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #51)
(1) Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”
( سورة الأنفال , Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #12)
[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.
do you really need from me to clear our understanding for these verse , or you already knows what will i say concerning these verse
 
This is a complicated sentence. It cannot be the basis of any important serious matter.
You have to understand ancient Hebrew to decipher the full, complete important meaning of that sentence.
 
Wolf,there were many Unitarian Christians in the early centuries of Christianity and people had different beliefs (Ebonites, Arianism, Nestorianism) but many were oppressed and their beliefs were distorted …history is always written by the powerful…so suggesting that Mary was trinitarian is not based on strong evidence.
Careful, you may inadvertently admit you hate Allah. 🙂 Do you know why I say this? Because you seek to give credence to the early heresies, many of which were Gnostic in source and believed in a semi-polytheistic understanding of the universe, or denounced God in some way, shape or fashion. The Marcion heretics, which are cited by many Muslims as an “early Christianity,” believed the Old Testament God to be an evil demiurge. Both Muslims and Christians agree that the God of the New Testament is the God of the Old Testament, therefore it’s simply hilarious to me when Muslims cite the Marcionites as some brave early form of true Christianity, indirectly supporting the notion that Allah is an evil god. Arianism likewise taught that Jesus was a form of demiurge (or in the very least, a lesser divine being) in a belief similar to today’s Jehovah’s Witnesses - again, hardly complimentary to the Muslim view of God. Nestorians, while disbelieving the connection between Christ’s divine and human natures, were still Trinitarian to a large degree - again, hardly complimentary to Islamic theology.

In fact, few of those heretics were “oppressed” or “their beliefs distorted.” The Arians, for example, nearly took over the empire, and Saint Jerome later wrote that the world was shocked to wake up and find itself Arian. Most of the persecution, in fact, was committed by Arians to Orthodox (Saint Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, was exiled from his position five times by Arians). You’ll find if you study early church history that most of the persecution was done by heretics, not to heretics. The days of the Spanish Inquisition didn’t come until much later, after the Schism.

Of course, most of the people you mentioned (Arians, Nestorians, etc) came much later than the post-apostolic Church, which was led by men who believed in the Trinity and in the divinity of Christ, as well as salvation from the cross. Saint Ignatius, Clement I, Saint Irenaus, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, and many many more attest to this. In fact, from the time of the apostles to the time of Mohammad we find a steady chain of orthodox and catholic thought. What Saint John Damascene writes in the 8th century is identical to what was being written 600 years before him.

This was one of the reasons I left Islam - because I recognized that there was no apostasy like Mormons and Muslims believe in. I saw that there was no single event in history where we could say the Christians had distorted the word of God, because there was that consistency recorded in history. In order to avoid this, one has to be intellectually dishonest by playing the “What about the heretics?” game, or using atheistic apologetics, ignoring that those same atheists would most likely denounce Islam as well.

The fact is, in any case, pointing to disagreements is a logical fallacy that holds no water. It can easily be used against Islam - does the presence of early apostates or heresies in Islamic history prove that orthodox Islam is a lie? Does the presence of Ahmadi Muslims mean that orthodox Muslims are wrong? Does the presence of Shi’a mean the Sunni are wrong? Of course not. Dissent in and by itself is not evidence that a particular side is wrong.
 
**You seem to be a recent convert to christianity, having little knowledge about Islam or anything. Quran did not say anything that you posted. Those things are found in some Hadith. So they are subject to scrutiny. May not be true.

Quran does not say, in the final days the Jews and the Muslims will fight each other, and that the rocks and trees will cry out for Muslims to slay the Jews hiding behind them**. Your presenting it here is all nonsense, not found in the Quran.

So the rest of your post is all fallacy.
Dr. Hassan Khater: "Muhammad said in his Hadith: ‘The Hour [of Resurrection] will not arrive until you fight the Jews and the rock and the tree will say: O Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!’
"The Prophet said: the Resurrection will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. The Muslims will kill the Jews, rejoice [in it], rejoice in Allah’s victory. The Muslims will kill the Jews, and he will hide… “The Prophet said: the Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim this is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!”
Does it really matter where it is found in Islamic scripture? After all "The Prophet" said it, so it must be true; and therefore, Jesus will have to kill himself in the last days.
 
I agree…
By the same logic,Arab Christians should not use the name Allah ,since it is related to the religion of Islam …
I admit I do not quite understand fully the usage of Allah as I do not have any background in the Arabic language and culture. From what I gather, Allah is Arabic for God. I have seen this topic discussed many times here and there are still no conclusive agreement to the word ‘Allah’. Some say it derives from the local moon god, other says Allah is a name like Ali or Mohammad while another says it means God in Arabic.

If it’s language issue I don’t have problem with that; however, it should not be confined to Islam only but as long as the speaker knows what he means by Allah.
but I agree that the first thing that comes to mind when saying “a Muslim” is a picture of someone praying 5 times a day and reciting the Quran in Arabic…but definitely the Jewish prophets were not doing the these things…
That’s the problem, Hadi … You see, Jesus did not do all that.
But now why is the an issue,because in the Quran , these figures are called Muslims…but you know…they are also called “Mu’mins” meaning “believers” but that does not seem to make much trouble…
True, but as I said, what is that in the belief?

If by saying a person is a Muslim is one who believes in one God and submits to God then practically every Jew and Christian would be one. But you see in this case, Islam decides on who is the believer. In that sense Jesus was not a believer in Islam since he did not practice it.

Of course Muslims are free to claim that Jesus was a Muslims but if you take it up with Christians, you can expect disagreement there.

May God bless.
 
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