Wasted suffering?

  • Thread starter Thread starter fons_vitae
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

fons_vitae

Guest
If a person is suffering due to their own sin or they aren’t consciously offering it up to God, does it still have any merit (or do them any good)?

(I ask because I myself have reaped a world of hurt due to my sins recently, while my mother is suffering from a debilitating illness, yet she’s not particularly religious.)
 
“The Dialogue” by Catherine of Siena talks about suffering right off the bat. You might take a few minutes and read the first chapter or two. ISBN 0809122332 is a very readable translation; you can get a used copy, with shipping, for under $15.

One part that stands out in my memory is:
“…in this life, guilt is not atoned for by any suffering simply as suffering, but rather by suffering borne with desire, love, and contrition of heart. The value is not in the suffering but in the soul’s desire. Likewise, neither desire nor any other virtue has value or life except through [God’s] only-begotten Son, Christ crucified, since the soul has drawn love from him and in virtue follows his footsteps. In this way and in no other is suffering of value. It satisfies for sin, then, with gentle unitive love born from the sweet knowledge of [God’s] goodness and from the bitterness and contrition the heart finds in the knowledge of itself and its own sins…”
 
So my mother just suffers to no effect? It doesn’t purge away her defects or anything unless she holds my theological positions? xD That’s stone cold, Midori.
 
In my mind suffering can be an opportunity to love. By offering our suffering for others it is in fact an act of love. So it can have merrit in that it can teach us love. And it is really a kind of prayer on others behalf. If I have to suffer at least let it have meaning and help others.

To me wasted suffering would be any suffering that doesn’t bear fruit. For instance St. Paul says that suffering produces perserverence. And this produces character which produces hope. And hope does not dissapoint us because God’s love is poured in our hearts.

Suffering can bring us closer to God even when we are far from him. I remember when I had drifted from God and I went through some sufferings. And God poured some grace in me through another who helped me realize God still loved me. And this drew me onto a journey that led me back to Christ and his church.

When one is going through the suffering it may be difficult and hard to see the point. But often in hindsight we can see that God let us go through that so we would reap spiritual blessings. I think it was C.S. Lewis who wrote most of his spiritual advancements came through suffering.

God has a plan for your mother. And no her suffering is not pointless. God can use all things for the good of those who love him. And he can even use it to help people come to him like he did for me. Btw I live with chronic pain. So I know what it is like to suffer. I will pray for you and your mother. God bless.
 
So my mother just suffers to no effect? It doesn’t purge away her defects or anything unless she holds my theological positions? xD That’s stone cold, Midori.
You don’t know that and neither does any one in this forum. None of us have the gift to see the journey her soul or any soul is traveling. You have asked a loaded question in order to be able to lash out at someone. You are hurting because your mother is suffering. Offer your suffering up to God and allow our merciful Father take care of your mother.
 
So my mother just suffers to no effect? It doesn’t purge away her defects or anything unless she holds my theological positions? xD That’s stone cold, Midori.
I haven’t read Catherine of Seanna. But from reading that quote, first it may be difficult to understand without proper context. But it seems to me she is talking about one particular type of suffering, and not all suffering in general. Namely, redemptive suffering. And of course there can not really be redemption without some contrition. Obviously, like in my case suffering can produce good fruit even in those not offering it up. The key element is grace. That is what is missing in that quote. (Alhough actually it does talk about the soul drawing Christ’s love which would be grace) . We can’t have contrition without it. All the suffering in the world will not change our hearts without it. But suffering plus grace can bear fruit .

Suffering can have a cleansing element to it or purging element. But without a change of heart or a contrition that cleansing element can be lost. And our hearts could actually grow harder like in the case of Pharoah in the Exodus.
 
You don’t know that and neither does any one in this forum. None of us have the gift to see the journey her soul or any soul is traveling. You have asked a loaded question in order to be able to lash out at someone. You are hurting because your mother is suffering. Offer your suffering up to God and allow our merciful Father take care of your mother.
This is true. I suppose I feel guilty about my comparatively charmed life, and wish that I could have taken on some of her pain.
 
God has a plan for your mother. And no her suffering is not pointless. God can use all things for the good of those who love him. And he can even use it to help people come to him like he did for me. Btw I live with chronic pain. So I know what it is like to suffer. I will pray for you and your mother. God bless.
Thank you for your glorious post. Yes, she was recently diagnosed with complex regional pain syndrome due to her surgeon causing nerve damage during a hip replacement.
 
This is true. I suppose I feel guilty about my comparatively charmed life, and wish that I could have taken on some of her pain.
Pray the stations of the Cross. Meditate on the suffering of Mary. This is the suffering we all experience when someone we love is suffering.

Like most everyone, I have thought a lot about why we suffer. When a child asks me what the meaning of suffering is, I try to explain this way.

Look at the beautiful flowers of nature - the rose, the lily, the wild flowers. So beautiful. So delicate. They are alive. The grow and bloom in their own time.

Now, look at the beautiful silk flowers. Yes, they are beautiful. They do not wilt and die. But… They are not alive.

We are not wooden puppets. We are not silk flowers. We are alive. We suffer. We die. But, still, we are alive. And, God loves us.
 
So my mother just suffers to no effect? It doesn’t purge away her defects or anything unless she holds my theological positions? xD That’s stone cold, Midori.
Well, what are you able to do?

What can you do to bring graces into someone else’s life?

What can you do to obtain spiritual treasure for those who don’t accumulate it themselves?

If I ask, “What can my 2-year-old make for dinner when I’m not around?” and someone tells me, “Your 2-year-old probably isn’t able to make dinner for himself. He needs help, and you probably shouldn’t leave him alone,” it’s nothing against my 2-year-old— it’s just that the concept of “making dinner” or “being self-sufficient” is probably not something he’s familiar with. He needs help. It’s my job to not set him adrift in the world unsupervised without the skills necessary— I would be doing a poor job if I know he needs x, y, and z, and I go on my merry way and hope he figures it out for himself when he gets hungry enough.

So the same thing is true for the people around us, where “God” might not be in the top 50 things they think about in the course of any given day, whether the reason is “they were never taught” or “they had a bad experience” or whatever. You don’t just go off to church and hope they’ll figure it out on their own someday when they hit bottom; you pray steadily for God to give them the graces he most wants to give them.

So, just because someone— whether it’s someone you know and love, or someone you have no idea exists— suffers, you and I have no idea about something that’s ultimately between them and God. God certainly can bring the most amazing fruit out of the worst situations. Many times, we don’t appreciate it at the time— many times, it takes us years to look back and realize what was going on. But it would be empty and foolish to make reassuring platitudes, that of course [this specific person in this specific situation] is just fine just by themselves, and there’s nothing necessary for you to be involved with at all, and even though everyone in the world suffers, everyone’s sufferings are equally chock-full of spiritual merit, so surely so-and-so’s sufferings are as well.

Prayer is never wasted. Charity covers a multitude of sins. Love is an action, not a feeling. If you are uncertain that a certain individual might be in need of graces, send prayers on their behalf. No prayer is ever wasted. If it’s needed, it will be applied— if it isn’t needed, someone else may well find profit it in.

So— is it really that cold to say, “Don’t presume suffering has merit in the absence of a conscious act of will that would give it merit, so how about if you lend a hand and make prayer and sacrifice on their behalf?”
2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church.
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
2027 No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. **Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, **as well as necessary temporal goods.
 
Anyone who is not in a state of grace cannot merit anything supernaturally, unless God is giving them graces to repent in response to their prayer, or things of that sort. To believe the opposite is to believe in heretical positions like Pelagianism.

Now, perhaps that also sounds “stone cold.”

But I think that it makes the most sense to conform ourselves to reality, rather than insisting that reality conform to our desires, to our feelings, and to our self-love.

Doing the latter is the easiest path to perdition that I can think of.

Moreover, this sort of information should lead to evangelization, and if it doesn’t, I believe there are some underlying issues that need to be addressed.
 
So my mother just suffers to no effect? It doesn’t purge away her defects or anything unless she holds my theological positions? xD That’s stone cold, Midori.
I watched my son suffer and die from cancer. He was very angry at God because he was dying so young, just when his wife had finally fallen pregnant and they were expecting their first child. He refused to see a priest or to receive the Last Rites.

I asked my priest if I could offer someone else’s suffering, particularly my son’s, for them, if they aren’t offering it themselves.

The answer was an unequivocal, ‘YES’!

He is a God of mercy and compassion. Offer your mother’s suffering to God for her and trust in His Mercy.

For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
 
I watched my son suffer and die from cancer. He was very angry at God because he was dying so young, just when his wife had finally fallen pregnant and they were expecting their first child. He refused to see a priest or to receive the Last Rites.

I asked my priest if I could offer someone else’s suffering, particularly my son’s, for them, if they aren’t offering it themselves.

The answer was an unequivocal, ‘YES’!

He is a God of mercy and compassion. Offer your mother’s suffering to God for her and trust in His Mercy.

For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Oh, thank you so much!.. I intuited that I could, but I suppose my OCD nature wanted some sort of priestly counsel on it… Sorry, everyone, for my previous brittleness. For what it’s worth, my mother at least has had some changes in her condition, if not a clear improvement.
 
Oh, thank you so much!.. I intuited that I could, but I suppose my OCD nature wanted some sort of priestly counsel on it… Sorry, everyone, for my previous brittleness. For what it’s worth, my mother at least has had some changes in her condition, if not a clear improvement.
It is hard to watch our loved ones suffer. It does tend to make us brittle as we try to cope, especially if there is nothing we can do to stop or even alleviate their suffering.
 
Also, don’t forget that you can offer up your own little sacrifices, abstinences, good deeds, etc., to God on your mother’s behalf. Whether God uses them for her spiritual or physical good, you will be helping her and you will be doing something of your own for her.

It’s maybe better not to tell her this, though. Moms hate for other people to sacrifice for them!

Consult with your priest if you get any bright ideas to do big things, and don’t do anything to make yourself sick. (Because your mom needs you to be well and strong for her.)
 
Also, don’t forget that you can offer up your own little sacrifices, abstinences, good deeds, etc., to God on your mother’s behalf. Whether God uses them for her spiritual or physical good, you will be helping her and you will be doing something of your own for her.

It’s maybe better not to tell her this, though. Moms hate for other people to sacrifice for them!

Consult with your priest if you get any bright ideas to do big things, and don’t do anything to make yourself sick. (Because your mom needs you to be well and strong for her.)
Oh yes, true… I’ve made some little sacrifices, but I don’t often remember. And true, I tend to either do something odd for penance (like barely eating) or overindulging in worldly pleasures (see this thread).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top