Water and Wine

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Bizob

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I go to a fairly Orthodox parish. As soon as the new directive about not pouring the Precious Blood was issued, my parish stopped doing so. Now the priest has several chalices on the altar during the offertory each already containing the wine. However I noticed that the priest only mixes water in the chalice he’s using to say the Mass. Before, when the Precious Blood was poured, this was not a problem, because the water was just mixed in the flagon (I suppose it would be called) at the offertory. But now, only one chalice out of five is mixed with water. My questions are, does anybody know offhand where I could find the info about this being ok (GIRM?) as well as “do you think it would make the consecration invalid, or only illicit? Or neither?”
 
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Bizob:
As soon as the new directive about not pouring the Precious Blood was issued”
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When did that happen? Thats something I have never heard of.
 
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Bizob:
My questions are, does anybody know offhand where I could find the info about this being ok (GIRM?) as well as “do you think it would make the consecration invalid, or only illicit? Or neither?”
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I couldn’t find any information about this in the GIRM, but Zenit’s liturgy Q&A addressed both your questions a few months ago here and here (scroll down to “Follow-up: Why Water With Wine”).
 
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metal1633:
When did that happen? Thats something I have never heard of.
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it was highlighted in Redemptionis Sacramentum
The bishop’s website summarizes this question in the following
**24. What procedure is to be followed when more than one chalice is needed for the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds?
**When more than one chalice is needed for the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds, several smaller chalices may be placed on the altar at the preparation of the gifts. The instruction prohibits the use of “flagons” or other such vessels from which the precious Blood is poured. While the use of flagons is a widespread practice in the United States, the instruction directs that they no longer be used in order to reduce the risk of spilling of the Precious Blood.
 
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ysicmg:
it was highlighted in Redemptionis Sacramentum
The bishop’s website summarizes this question in the following
**24. What procedure is to be followed when more than one chalice is needed for the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds?
**When more than one chalice is needed for the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds, several smaller chalices may be placed on the altar at the preparation of the gifts. The instruction prohibits the use of “flagons” or other such vessels from which the precious Blood is poured. While the use of flagons is a widespread practice in the United States, the instruction directs that they no longer be used in order to reduce the risk of spilling of the Precious Blood.
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Thereby increasing the risk of spilling the Precious Blood by making the Altar a “target-rich environment” during the intricate movements during the Eucharistic Prayer and following.

No winning for losing!

karen marie
 
TLM Altar Boy:
Zenit’s liturgy Q&A addressed both your questions a few months ago here and here
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Although he pointed us to the correct answer, I know a lot of people don’t bother following links, or they may ask, “Who the heck is Zenit?”

Zenit is the Vatican News Agency, so it is trustworthy enough for this Catholic to believe its answers.

It said:
Zenit:
In line with the June 29 column on why water is mixed with the wine at Mass, some readers asked if water should be placed in all of the chalices when more than one is used for the Eucharistic celebration.

The norms are not very precise on this question. It appears that this is the preferred option and the one that best corresponds to the tradition that water be added to the wine used for consecration. Yet, this is not specifically mandated.

Several liturgists suggest that adding water to the principal chalice alone sufficiently fulfills the symbolic meaning of the rite and the liturgical norms. They argue that the several chalices are in an analogous situation to that of the small hosts present in additional ciboria and adding water to one is symbolically adding it to all.

Both options are probably legitimate unless the Holy See states otherwise.
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There is more discussion of this in the original article.
 
It would not be invalid but would be illicit. The priest must mix water with the wine (not part of the wine) to be Consecrated.
 
Hey Bro Rich, are you more correct than the Vatican ? What is your authority for concluding that it is illicit ? Sounds like you consider your SWAGs to be scripture .
 
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roemer:
Hey Bro Rich, are you more correct than the Vatican ? What is your authority for concluding that it is illicit ? Sounds like you consider your SWAGs to be scripture .
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Please have a little charity with your posts. I believe it is appropriate for all participants, but especially appropriate towards the religious.
 
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