Water Baptism and Spirit Baptism

[Youngone88]

I’m having trouble working out the biblical view of baptism and salvation.

Until now, I assumed that water baptism and spirit baptism were the same thing. However, Acts 1:5 and 11:16 connects John the Baptist’s prediction in Mark 1:8, which says “I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit,” with Pentecost and the Holy Spirits descent on Cornelius.

Clearly, then, there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit that occurred apart from water baptism, even if water baptism also includes the Holy Spirit

This makes 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 difficult to understand for me. The verses read, “For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”

Paul seems to be specifically mentioning baptism in the Spirit, a term used in Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33; Acts 1:5 and 11:16 to refer to the experiences of the first Christians at Pentecost and of Cornelius in Acts 10.

My main concern is that, if Paul is referring to Spirit baptism in 1 Corinthians 12, then it would seem that one is spiritual baptized into Christ’s body, and therefore saved, apart from water baptism. The possibility seems strengthened by the fact that his companion, Luke, uses the term “baptize you with the Holy Spirit”, to refer to Pentecost and the Cornelius incident.

How do I support the idea that Biblical passages like 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 6, and Galatians 3:27 refer to water baptism, despite the evidence I mentioned above? In addition, are Titus 3:5 and John 3:5 the only place where water baptism and spiritual baptism are equated? The more explicit the verse, the better, since John 3:5 and Titus 3:5 don’t explicitly say baptism.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I’m having trouble working out the biblical view of baptism and salvation.

Until now, I assumed that water baptism and spirit baptism were the same thing. However, Acts 1:5 and 11:16 connects John the Baptist’s prediction in Mark 1:8, which says “I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit,” with Pentecost and the Holy Spirits descent on Cornelius.

Clearly, then, there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit that occurred apart from water baptism, even if water baptism also includes the Holy Spirit

This makes 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 difficult to understand for me. The verses read, “For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”

Paul seems to be specifically mentioning baptism in the Spirit, a term used in Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33; Acts 1:5 and 11:16 to refer to the experiences of the first Christians at Pentecost and of Cornelius in Acts 10.

My main concern is that, if Paul is referring to Spirit baptism in 1 Corinthians 12, then it would seem that one is spiritual baptized into Christ’s body, and therefore saved, apart from water baptism. The possibility seems strengthened by the fact that his companion, Luke, uses the term “baptize you with the Holy Spirit”, to refer to Pentecost and the Cornelius incident.

How do I support the idea that Biblical passages like 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 6, and Galatians 3:27 refer to water baptism, despite the evidence I mentioned above? In addition, are Titus 3:5 and John 3:5 the only place where water baptism and spiritual baptism are equated? The more explicit the verse, the better, since John 3:5 and Titus 3:5 don’t explicitly say baptism.

Maybe it would help to remember that the baptism of John the Baptist even though with water is not the same as Sacramental Baptism with water, which is an operation of the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Maybe it would help to remember that the baptism of John the Baptist even though with water is not the same as Sacramental Baptism with water, which is an operation of the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The other thing to remember is that Scripture warns that not everything is easy to understand, you are trying to figure this out for yourself, maybe you need to look to the Church? Have you looked over the Catechism section on Baptism, specifically the passages that refer to the Scripture passages you are confused with using the Scripture index in the back of the Catechism.

 

[Smile1934]

I’m having trouble working out the biblical view of baptism and salvation.

Until now, I assumed that water baptism and spirit baptism were the same thing. However, Acts 1:5 and 11:16 connects John the Baptist’s prediction in Mark 1:8, which says “I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit,” with Pentecost and the Holy Spirits descent on Cornelius.

Clearly, then, there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit that occurred apart from water baptism, even if water baptism also includes the Holy Spirit

This makes 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 difficult to understand for me. The verses read, “For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”

Paul seems to be specifically mentioning baptism in the Spirit, a term used in Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33; Acts 1:5 and 11:16 to refer to the experiences of the first Christians at Pentecost and of Cornelius in Acts 10.

My main concern is that, if Paul is referring to Spirit baptism in 1 Corinthians 12, then it would seem that one is spiritual baptized into Christ’s body, and therefore saved, apart from water baptism. The possibility seems strengthened by the fact that his companion, Luke, uses the term “baptize you with the Holy Spirit”, to refer to Pentecost and the Cornelius incident.

How do I support the idea that Biblical passages like 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 6, and Galatians 3:27 refer to water baptism, despite the evidence I mentioned above? In addition, are Titus 3:5 and John 3:5 the only place where water baptism and spiritual baptism are equated? The more explicit the verse, the better, since John 3:5 and Titus 3:5 don’t explicitly say baptism.

Peter tells us in Acts: **(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.” **
Now Peter must have been talking to adults, because he said: “You must repent” So then he says a person who is baptized as an adult receives the Holy Spirit.

Now Peter was talking to non-baptized people and they received the Holy Spirit even before being baptized.

Scripture also tells us that some were baptized with water and hadn’t as of yet received the Holy Spirit. So then the apostles went and laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

I would personally say that the important thing is to accept Jesus as one’s Lord and God. Then be baptized in water.

Personally I was baptized as a baby. At a early age a bishop laid hands on me which was supposed to give me the Holy Spirit. Well nothing happened to me or any of the other people who had hands laid on them. Nothing that is which anyone could see.

Thirty years later I started to pray in tongues, received the gift of Knowledge, Discernment, Prophesy, and Healing. All these gifts are given to me, as they are needed. I must need the gift of tongues all the time, because that is one gift which is always with me.

From my experience I would say that we are given the Holy Spirit when we accept Jesus as our Lord and God. We receive the Gifts of the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit decides.

 

[NHInsider]

I think that the distinction is really between Christian baptism and pre-Christian (Jewish) mikvah. Mikvah is symbolic bathing. It is what John was asking people to do in preparation for the coming of the Messiah, and it continued into the age of the Church. Christian baptism is baptism in the Spirit - normally performed with water (“living/flowing” water and the invocation of the Trinity) but sometimes by God’s mercy in other ways (as when He poured out His spirit on the household of Cornelius in order to prove to Peter that it was okay for them to be baptised. But all the references to baptism in the epistles can be understood as meaning Christian baptism, “with water and the Spirit” (as Jesus said in the Nicodemus discussion).

Confirmation is really part of baptism but has come to be a stand-alone sacrament in the west, for historical reasons having to do with the infrequency of contact between bishops and their far-flung churches. It has come to be a re-commitment of the individual to the Lord and a re-awakening of the Spirit in the soul of the believer. (In the East it is still given along with Baptism).

Not entering the discussion about believer’s-only baptism as it has been discussed at length elsewhere . . .

 

[PJM]

=Youngone88;5705488]I’m having trouble working out the biblical view of baptism and salvation.

Until now, I assumed that water baptism and spirit baptism were the same thing. However, Acts 1:5 and 11:16 connects John the Baptist’s prediction in Mark 1:8, which says “I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit,” with Pentecost and the Holy Spirits descent on Cornelius.

Clearly, then, there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit that occurred apart from water baptism, even if water baptism also includes the Holy Spirit

This makes 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 difficult to understand for me. The verses read, “For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”

Paul seems to be specifically mentioning baptism in the Spirit, a term used in Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33; Acts 1:5 and 11:16 to refer to the experiences of the first Christians at Pentecost and of Cornelius in Acts 10.

My main concern is that, if Paul is referring to Spirit baptism in 1 Corinthians 12, then it would seem that one is spiritual baptized into Christ’s body, and therefore saved, apart from water baptism. The possibility seems strengthened by the fact that his companion, Luke, uses the term “baptize you with the Holy Spirit”, to refer to Pentecost and the Cornelius incident.

How do I support the idea that Biblical passages like 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 6, and Galatians 3:27 refer to water baptism, despite the evidence I mentioned above? In addition, are Titus 3:5 and John 3:5 the only place where water baptism and spiritual baptism are equated? The more explicit the verse, the better, since John 3:5 and Titus 3:5 don’t explicitly say baptism.

In present times they are the same [BOTH] Mt. 28: "16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshipped him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." *

Love and prayers,

 

[AnnieOakley2]

I’m having trouble working out the biblical view of baptism and salvation.

Until now, I assumed that water baptism and spirit baptism were the same thing. However, Acts 1:5 and 11:16 connects John the Baptist’s prediction in Mark 1:8, which says “I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit,” with Pentecost and the Holy Spirits descent on Cornelius.

Clearly, then, there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit that occurred apart from water baptism, even if water baptism also includes the Holy Spirit

This makes 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 difficult to understand for me. The verses read, “For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”

Paul seems to be specifically mentioning baptism in the Spirit, a term used in Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33; Acts 1:5 and 11:16 to refer to the experiences of the first Christians at Pentecost and of Cornelius in Acts 10.

My main concern is that, if Paul is referring to Spirit baptism in 1 Corinthians 12, then it would seem that one is spiritual baptized into Christ’s body, and therefore saved, apart from water baptism. The possibility seems strengthened by the fact that his companion, Luke, uses the term “baptize you with the Holy Spirit”, to refer to Pentecost and the Cornelius incident.

How do I support the idea that Biblical passages like 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 6, and Galatians 3:27 refer to water baptism, despite the evidence I mentioned above? In addition, are Titus 3:5 and John 3:5 the only place where water baptism and spiritual baptism are equated? The more explicit the verse, the better, since John 3:5 and Titus 3:5 don’t explicitly say baptism.

Here are some versus and thoughts directly from Scripture to help you further discern that it is the Baptism into Christ, which is the true saving and Holy Spirit baptism.

Act 2:38
Peter {said} to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Greek grammatical will render “Repent, for the forgiveness of sins and you will receive the Holy Spirit, then each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.”

Rendered any differently, then Scripture would contradict itself as you will see. Confirm these things for yourself from Scripture.

Matthew 3:11(& Also Luke 3:16) "As for me, I baptize you*** with water for repentance***, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; **He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Galatians 3:26-27
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
This is Spirit Baptism.

Matthew 3:11 (cf Luke 3:16) exposes three distinct baptisms and we know Jesus baptism was a one of a kind, a fourth baptism, and “fire” relates to judgment.

Acts 10:44-47
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized ***who have received the Holy Spirit ***just as we {did,} can he?”

Clearer than the above? See below.

Acts 15:15-17
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as {He did} upon us at the beginning. 16 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 "Therefore; if God gave to them the same gift as {He gave} to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ,

Hear the message and believe it with a heart sincerity, receive the Holy Spirit immediately upon believing, then RECEIVING the Holy Spirit, the seal of promise, then baptized in water in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. This is the outward expression of the inward faith.

Further evidence from Scripture.
John 1
"I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’

Remember that Jesus did not to any water baptism; He did not need to because He baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

Lastly;
Acts 1 - (Jesus speaking)
Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,”** {He said,} you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." **18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God…God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

 

[PJM]

=AnnieOakley2;5709665]Here are some versus and thoughts directly from Scripture to help you further discern that it is the Baptism into Christ, which is the true saving and Holy Spirit baptism.

Act 2:38
Peter {said} to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Greek grammatical will render “Repent, for the forgiveness of sins and you will receive the Holy Spirit, then each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.”

Rendered any differently, then Scripture would contradict itself as you will see. Confirm these things for yourself from Scripture.

Matthew 3:11(& Also Luke 3:16) "As for me, I baptize you*** with water for repentance***, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; **He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Galatians 3:26-27
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
This is Spirit Baptism.

Matthew 3:11 (cf Luke 3:16) exposes three distinct baptisms and we know Jesus baptism was a one of a kind, a fourth baptism, and “fire” relates to judgment.

Acts 10:44-47
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized ***who have received the Holy Spirit ***just as we {did,} can he?”

Clearer than the above? See below.

Acts 15:15-17
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as {He did} upon us at the beginning. 16 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 "Therefore; if God gave to them the same gift as {He gave} to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ,

Hear the message and believe it with a heart sincerity, receive the Holy Spirit immediately upon believing, then RECEIVING the Holy Spirit, the seal of promise, then baptized in water in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. This is the outward expression of the inward faith.

Further evidence from Scripture.
John 1
"I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’

Remember that Jesus did not to any water baptism; He did not need to because He baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

Lastly;
Acts 1 - (Jesus speaking)
Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,”** {He said,} you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." **18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God…God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Hi Annie,
A personal note, before retireing to Florida I lived in Greenville Ohio, the birthplace of Annie Oakley

Only from a historical perspective is the debate vaild. The debate is mute if we follow the mandate of Jesus Himself. Mt. 28:19-20 -19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

 

[NormanFrink]

There is “one baptism” Ephesians 4:5. This baptism is spirit/water baptism and is necessary for salvation. (John 3:3-5, 1Peter 3:21, Acts 22:16, etc.) John’s baptism is only water baptism, but that is irrelevent to the argument. We no longer have John’s baptism. Anti-Christian Baptists use Acts 1:5 and 11:16 in this debate and mislead people to believe John’s baptism is the same as current water baptism. Acts 10:47-48 proves that water baptism is the baptism in the name of the Lord, not John’s baptism.

There is not a baptism of the Holy Spirit that occurred apart from water baptism, even if water baptism also includes the Holy Spirit. Chronologically this is true. But Substantively this is not. Abraham did not have faith apart from Jesus Christ in the flesh substatively, but he did have faith apart from Jesus Christ in the flesh chronologically. Even if you receive the Spirit before or after baptism you are still buried and raised by baptism through faith. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Colossians 2:12-13) God is bigger than our human timeline. Baptism is completely a work of God and His Grace through Jesus Christ. Baptists turn the Good News of Baptism into a work of man and then tell you that in order to be saved you have to decide to accept Christ into your heart (found nowhere in scripture).

 

[AnnieOakley2]

Hi Annie,
A personal note, before retireing to Florida I lived in Greenville Ohio, the birthplace of Annie Oakley

Only from a historical perspective is the debate vaild. The debate is mute if we follow the mandate of Jesus Himself. Mt. 28:19-20 -19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

Actually, Greenville is where she died, but two miles northwest of Woodland, now called Willowdell, which is also in Darke County", is where she was born. Near the village of North Star.

I guess it will be mute for those who choose to ignore Scripture. The Great Commission is the whole reason a Christian exists on this earth; unfortunately most “so-called” Christians do not seem to understand this basic fact. Fortunately, the end will be here very soon for those that are in Christ and clothed with His righteousness, not of their own.

 

[PJM]

=AnnieOakley2;5713168]Actually, Greenville is where she died, but two miles northwest of Woodland, now called Willowdell, which is also in Darke County", is where she was born. Near the village of North Star.

I guess it will be mute for those who choose to ignore Scripture. The Great Commission is the whole reason a Christian exists on this earth; unfortunately most “so-called” Christians do not seem to understand this basic fact. Fortunately, the end will be here very soon for those that are in Christ and clothed with His righteousness, not of their own.

So what exactly is the “Great Commission?” And What do you mean the “end will be here soon?”

And thanks for ther Annie info. I do like to be correct.

Love and prayers,

Pat

 

[Kasey1]

I think that the distinction is really between Christian baptism and pre-Christian (Jewish) mikvah. Mikvah is symbolic bathing. It is what John was asking people to do in preparation for the coming of the Messiah, and it continued into the age of the Church. Christian baptism is baptism in the Spirit - normally performed with water (“living/flowing” water and the invocation of the Trinity) but sometimes by God’s mercy in other ways (as when He poured out His spirit on the household of Cornelius in order to prove to Peter that it was okay for them to be baptised. But all the references to baptism in the epistles can be understood as meaning Christian baptism, “with water and the Spirit” (as Jesus said in the Nicodemus discussion).

Confirmation is really part of baptism but has come to be a stand-alone sacrament in the west, for historical reasons having to do with the infrequency of contact between bishops and their far-flung churches. It has come to be a re-commitment of the individual to the Lord and a re-awakening of the Spirit in the soul of the believer. (In the East it is still given along with Baptism).

Not entering the discussion about believer’s-only baptism as it has been discussed at length elsewhere . . .

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh,I feel the same too

 

[Systratiotes]

So what exactly is the “Great Commission?” And What do you mean the “end will be here soon?”

And thanks for ther Annie info. I do like to be correct.

Love and prayers,

Pat

A command from the Lord to go and tell about the “Good news” everywhere possible; that God has walked among men and died for our transgressions and rose again to demonstrate His power over death, that through Him we will have life and be reconcile to God through Jesus. Those who profess to believe should be water baptized to mark ones identification with Jesus in His death, burial and resurrection.

What is interesting is that man will fail at this; read about the two witnesses, then the angel that go to all the ends of the earth to give to gospel to all. (Revelation of course)

 

[Systratiotes]

Here are some versus and thoughts directly from Scripture to help you further discern that it is the Baptism into Christ, which is the true saving and Holy Spirit baptism.

Act 2:38
Peter {said} to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Greek grammatical will render “Repent, for the forgiveness of sins and you will receive the Holy Spirit, then each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.”

Rendered any differently, then Scripture would contradict itself as you will see. Confirm these things for yourself from Scripture.

Matthew 3:11(& Also Luke 3:16) "As for me, I baptize you*** with water for repentance***, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; **He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Galatians 3:26-27
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
This is Spirit Baptism.

Matthew 3:11 (cf Luke 3:16) exposes three distinct baptisms and we know Jesus baptism was a one of a kind, a fourth baptism, and “fire” relates to judgment.

Acts 10:44-47
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized ***who have received the Holy Spirit ***just as we {did,} can he?”

Clearer than the above? See below.

Acts 15:15-17
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as {He did} upon us at the beginning. 16 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 "Therefore; if God gave to them the same gift as {He gave} to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ,

Hear the message and believe it with a heart sincerity, receive the Holy Spirit immediately upon believing, then RECEIVING the Holy Spirit, the seal of promise, then baptized in water in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. This is the outward expression of the inward faith.

Further evidence from Scripture.
John 1
"I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’

Remember that Jesus did not to any water baptism; He did not need to because He baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

Lastly;
Acts 1 - (Jesus speaking)
Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,”** {He said,} you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." **18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God…God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Hello Ms. Oakley,

You are right on target…pun intended.

 

[InDefense]

I’m having trouble working out the biblical view of baptism and salvation.

Until now, I assumed that water baptism and spirit baptism were the same thing. However, Acts 1:5 and 11:16 connects John the Baptist’s prediction in Mark 1:8, which says “I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit,” with Pentecost and the Holy Spirits descent on Cornelius.

Clearly, then, there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit that occurred apart from water baptism, even if water baptism also includes the Holy Spirit

This makes 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 difficult to understand for me. The verses read, “For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”

Paul seems to be specifically mentioning baptism in the Spirit, a term used in Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33; Acts 1:5 and 11:16 to refer to the experiences of the first Christians at Pentecost and of Cornelius in Acts 10.

My main concern is that, if Paul is referring to Spirit baptism in 1 Corinthians 12, then it would seem that one is spiritual baptized into Christ’s body, and therefore saved, apart from water baptism. The possibility seems strengthened by the fact that his companion, Luke, uses the term “baptize you with the Holy Spirit”, to refer to Pentecost and the Cornelius incident.

How do I support the idea that Biblical passages like 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 6, and Galatians 3:27 refer to water baptism, despite the evidence I mentioned above? In addition, are Titus 3:5 and John 3:5 the only place where water baptism and spiritual baptism are equated? The more explicit the verse, the better, since John 3:5 and Titus 3:5 don’t explicitly say baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 refers to baptism by the Spirit
Does Romans 6 mention water baptism ?
Does Galatians 3:27 mention water baptism?
Titus 3:5 is referring to the Holy Spirit and Jesus used water to describe Spirit baptism (see John 4:14 & 7:38) and the water spoken of here happens internally.

Also see Acts 8 and what happened to the Samaritans. Baptism by the Holy Spirit and water baptism are clearly separated. And if you read Acts 8, I have a question for you. How did anyone know that the Samaritans had not received the Holy Spirit ?

Also, Acts 2:4 The 120 including the disciples received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

 

[fred_conty]

1 Corinthians 12:13 refers to baptism by the Spirit.

I Corinthians 12;13
This passage is right smack dab in the middle of speaking of the gifts of the Holy Spirit given to various members of the Body of the Church.

Look at the paragraphs immediately LEADING UP to this passage, and it is readily apparent that Paul is talking about the variety and unity of gifts given to members by the Holy Spirit.

Look at the paragraphs IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING this passage, and again it is readily apparent that Paul is talking about the analogy of the body and the importance of the gifts of the Holy Spirit to the church’s members.

Therefore the subject of baptism is not the focal point, and therefore water is ommitted.​

In Corinthians 12;13 “In the one Spirit we were baptised…one Spirit was given to us all to drink.”

He is talking here about the ONE Spirit running thu all the members of the church because we are ONE body, with many gifts benefitting one another. There is no intention on Paul’s part to give a lecture on baptism, but rather to emphasize that one Spirit is threading the many members, receiving gifts of the Spirit to help each other, and to function together as one church. The context presents us with the principle point that Paul is making, is not baptism, but the one Spirit running thru out the Church.
And so water is not addressed here.​

Notice too, that one Spirit is placed first in the sentence, and baptism is last, The weight is on one Spirit, not baptism. And therefore water is not mentioned.

The importance of the one Spirit runs thru out all of these passages. The word baptism does not appear again. Which means that baptism is not the subject of Paul’s interest in
these passages. And so water is not important.

 

[fred_conty]

Does Romans 6 mention water baptism ?

Romans 6;3-4
“You have been taught that when we were baptised in Christ Jesus we were baptised in his death, in other words, when we were baptised we went into the tomb with him and joined him in death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the Father’s glory, we too might live a new life.”

This whole passage relates the effects of baptism and not the method of baptism.

Having said this, he does say that being baptised is like being in a tomb, buried. What happens at baptism is that we are immersed by water, or buried by water. And Paul also says that baptism was being raised from the dead, and in baptism we are raised from the water to a new life. So we might say that water is implied in this passage.

In addition, when someone speaks of baptism, do they always say, “were you baptised with water and the spirit?”, or do they normally say, “were you baptised?”. The word “water” is frequently left out in referring to baptism, because it is implied by many christians.

However there are some denominations who only refer as necessary the heart felt reception of Jesus, leaving out the real baptism of water as needed for salvation. So they would say,“have you received Jesus in your heart?”. The water part is a mere formality and not necessary, ignoring “unless you are born again of water and the Holy Spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven,” which is in the Gospel of John.

 

[TimothyH]

Baptism and Pentacost are two different things.

Baptism brings us into God’s family. Confirmation is our personal participation in Pentacost, when the disciples went from locking themselves in the upper room out of fear to being able to procaim Christ boldly wihout fear even of death.

Pentacost/Confirmation and Baptism both give us gifts of the holy spirit but they are different.

-Tim-

 

[fred_conty]

Does Galatians 3:27 mention water baptism?

Galatians 3;26-28
“…and you are, ALL of you Sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ. ALL baptised in Christ, and there are no more distinctions between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female, but ALL of you are one in Christ Jesus.”

The passage here is obiously written to make sure everyone knew their equality before God and other men.
It has nothing to do with instructions on baptism, but only the effect of baptism, namely, that we are all equal before God without exception. The word “all” was mentioned 3 times, and “distinction” once refering to equality of “all”.

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In Acts 8;36-38 “Further along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, ‘Look, there is some water here; is there anything to stop me being baptised?’ He ordered the chariot to stop, then Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water and Philip baptised him.”

Now unlike Galatians 3:26 which was talking about all being equal before God, this time in Acts 8 the discussion is centered around baptism itself, and it was with water that Phillip, the apostle, baptised him in.

 

[fred_conty]

Titus 3:5 is referring to the Holy Spirit

Titus 3;5 “…he saved us by means of the cleansing water of rebirth and by renewing us with the Holy Spirit…”

This passage says “cleansing water”. I’m not sure what you mean since it refers to water.

 

[fred_conty]

Jesus used water to describe Spirit baptism (see John 4:14 & 7:38) and the water spoken of here happens internally.

John 4;14 “…But anyone who drinks the water that I shall give will never be thirsty again; the water that I shall give will turn into a spring inside him, welling up to eternal life.”

Jesus is not giving a discourse on the “how to” of baptism but saying that the water (the effect of baptism) will prevent the man from dying because of the special life he gives to him. He knows this woman has to come to this well frequently and knows how important water is, so He uses something she is familiar with to instruct her on another water. This immediately grabs her attention, “give me some.” When he is invited to stay with these people, then he has the opportunity to go into the details with them just how this new life is started.

John 7:37-38 “If any man is thristy, let him come to me! Let the man come and drink who believes in me!.”

This passage has no reference to water because the passage comes after
John 6, in which He said:

“For my flesh is real food, and my blood is REAL DRINK. He who eats my flesh and DRINKS my BLOOD lives in me and I in him.”

The passage of John 7 refers to the previous John 6 since no mention of water is made in either. And John 6 is the discourse on his real body and blood that one must eat and drink to be saved. The whole context of John is spoken in the context of his body and blood and not of baptism. So the drink in John 7 is the drink in John 6 which is his blood.